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Modular Weapons System - for homebuilders
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  weaponeer

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Posted: May 09 2010 at 12:34pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

anymore ideas on the modular rifle?
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  63DH8

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Posted: May 29 2010 at 6:21pm | IP Logged Quote 63DH8

  What I like about the FAL lower over the AR/M-16 is the FAL doesn't have a mag well built into the lower. This gives the FAL lower the flexibility of different length cases. What I would like to see is a rotating locking bolt with a para recoil spring on the upper. If a roller was placed on the bolt carrier, you can cam a rail like the M-60. All the Fire control is in the lower, and can be converted to a semi for those States what are not class three friendly. You can calibrate the gas system to the caliber and case size with a twist of the gas nut.

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  weaponeer

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Posted: May 29 2010 at 9:04pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

63DH8 wrote:
  What I like about the FAL lower over the AR/M-16 is the FAL doesn't have a mag well built into the lower. This gives the FAL lower the flexibility of different length cases. What I would like to see is a rotating locking bolt with a para recoil spring on the upper. If a roller was placed on the bolt carrier, you can cam a rail like the M-60. All the Fire control is in the lower, and can be converted to a semi for those States what are not class three friendly. You can calibrate the gas system to the caliber and case size with a twist of the gas nut.

I still think it should have a modular mag housing, so you have an upper, lower and a mag housing

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  63DH8

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Posted: May 29 2010 at 9:32pm | IP Logged Quote 63DH8

weaponeer wrote:

63DH8 wrote:
  What I like about the FAL lower over the AR/M-16 is the FAL doesn't have a mag well built into the lower. This gives the FAL lower the flexibility of different length cases. What I would like to see is a rotating locking bolt with a para recoil spring on the upper. If a roller was placed on the bolt carrier, you can cam a rail like the M-60. All the Fire control is in the lower, and can be converted to a semi for those States what are not class three friendly. You can calibrate the gas system to the caliber and case size with a twist of the gas nut.

I still think it should have a modular mag housing, so you have an upper, lower and a mag housing



I don't see why it couldn't. An FAL lower, the upper with a rotating bolt/bolt carrier, and a modular mag housing. Or...  FAL lower and an upper that uses a disintegrating link feed system. It's something the AR-M-16 lower can't do due to the mag well being part of the lower. Another advantage is the FAL lower isn't restricted like the AR's.
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Posted: June 05 2010 at 6:07pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

There are several things I like about the FAL.

I really like the FCG, and adjustable gas port, and the design offers a lot of good ideas, such as the lever to open the receiver (wish the AR had that system for the rear receiver pin)

the original FAL is maxed out as far as the design for 7.62x51, and anything larger would not be wise, and it's far to heavy of a weapon.  (My tricked out L1A1 weighs more than most LMGs)

but there is a whole lot to be learned from the design.

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  Grunt Medic TXARNG

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Posted: June 18 2010 at 7:23am | IP Logged Quote Grunt Medic TXARNG

So after much careful evaluation, I decided to go for my modular rifle project when I saw an x39 MGI Hydra at auction.  Got it for $1450-, and ordered mag wells direct from MGI for the 5.45 and 5.56 magazines.  Next I need barrels and a 5.56 BCG - I'm looking hard at the Fail Zero unit.  I'm also planning to SBR the lower.  that'll give me a rifle with a quick change barrel, that uses standard AR barrels (cheap), in 5.45, 5.56 and 7.62 x 39 - and the ability to change to 6.5, 6.8 and .450 with just a barrel and magazine change.
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  blurrededge

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Posted: July 08 2010 at 8:33am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

Been thinking about this again recently, probably due to my renewed obsession with getting an RPD parts kit. I also wish the commies stuck with the RPD design and made it in 5.45x39. In any case, the RPD top cover and feed tray seem like a good starting point for the intermediate calibers, aside from being limited to the belts, which, unless my assumptions are wrong, would be too big for the 5.56 and 5.45 case. A 6.5x39 belt fed, on the other hand, would be very nice, if one had the ability to reload enough to feed the thing. Then the belts would not really be an issue, and the cheap AK mags could be used as well for a SAW type design. Which brings me around to the MG-47 builds... If the design were modified to use an AR bolt head and barrel extension, with a custom built bolt carrier, it may be easier to feed from a feed tray and magazine, and would also open up the possibilities with the various AR bolt heads that are out there.

Thinking as I type, I believe someone built an MG-47 that fired 7.62x25 from the belts...can't seem to find the thread on that though; alot of the photos from the AK Files MG-47 builds are gone now. In any case, if the belts can work with the 7.62x25, then there is the possibility of working with the 5.45x39 (don't know if they were MG-3 or RPD belts) and possibly the 5.56

Apex has spare RPD parts:
Top Cover with guts: $65
Feed Tray: $30

not enough time and $$...

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Posted: July 08 2010 at 9:45am | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

really great ideas....

as for belts...

If we were stuck with the rpd style belt then there is the possibility of making your own belt.  while it sounds impossible there is a kid on YouTube who made his own working MG42 belts from pop cans.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tacome1942

he said it was a pain in the butt, but if a kid can do it why not built a belt for any caliber you want or need?

a 5.45 LMG of a modified RPD design would be a very good LMG.   they would have been better off modifying the RPD for the new caliber and adding removable barrels.  even better would be to use the M249 5.56mm style links so you didn't have the long belt dangling down.

The idea of a 6.5x39 RPD is very cool...  if you have to go to the trouble of changing barrels you might as well install a removable barrel system even if it's as simple as a barrel nut like an UZI. 

because the 6.5 uses the same bolt as the 7.62x39 it would seem that most of the work on the RPD is done other than the barrel.

I thought the MG47 build threads were on Gunco.net?

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  blurrededge

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Posted: July 08 2010 at 11:15am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

Seems they are on there as well. The filter here at work blocks alot of photos, so I can't tell what's nolonger online and what's being blocked...

and from what I've read the MG-34/42 belts work with the RPD system... and there are two types or RPD belts... "U" and "L"...
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 11:09pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

I see more people building belt feds using the RPD top covers because the are shorter and more compact.
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Posted: July 26 2010 at 7:39am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

Isn't the top cover from the M240 even shorter? I can't find where I saw the side by side photo of one of those, and an MG-42... I think it was in one of gundoctors threads.


Edit: found it Here



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Posted: July 26 2010 at 9:51am | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

I would like to see the comparison of the M249 and RPD top covers.

The RPD should be the cheapest and it's already setup for a 7.62x39.

The M249 would be great for a 5.56 or 5.45 build, it's just hard to find.

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Posted: July 26 2010 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

True enough, I thought about the rarity of the M240 topcover vs the others, although it would open up the size range for .308 and comparable sized rounds if the builder wanted to go that route, vs being stuck with intermediate and smaller rounds with the RPD topcover.


Or we could start from scratch
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Posted: July 26 2010 at 11:04am | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

both the M240 and M249 would be the best top covers to use for the 5.56mm and 7.62mm range.

come to think of it there is one CHEAP top cover that would allow you to use 7.62x54R and maybe even with PKM links.

it's ULTRA short (shortest one I know of)..

it's the British ANM2 top Cover for 303.  you can normally get top cover bolt, and even a 303 barrel cover just a couple hundred which is cheap for a top cover set.  the top cover itself is $60

Here

keep in mind it's setup for the PULL OUT and not push though style of feeding like the M249/M240

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Posted: July 26 2010 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

My g/f doesn't approve of the pull out method

It seems that the push through links would make the design less complicated, especially if it were going to be modular and feed from a box magazine as well.

I'm wondering if that HK feed sprocket might be a good thing to try... my brain seems to think the parts would be easier to fabricate for replacement (or build from scratch).
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  Lasergunner

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Posted: August 06 2010 at 12:39pm | IP Logged Quote Lasergunner

The AR7's method of installing a barrel would well serve the homebuilder. The AR7 Barrel is large enough at the chamber end to serve as its own trunnion. It is aligned with a key at the top of the barrel and a keyway at the top of the frame. The frame, which is composed of two halves of either cast aluminum or stamped sheet metal, is threaded at the foward end. A threaded colllar, throughwhich the barrel passes through sits at the rear of the barrel and is tightened onto the receiver's foward end to secure the barrel.

On Pookie's site, he has pics of a AK74 homebuild converted to 7.62x25mm and 9mm. The two barrel sets for the weapon use an UZI trunnion. That makes it a screw in trunnion with the barrels turned to fit and an UZI Barrel nut used t to secure the barrels.

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AK_Pistol/others/otherproj ects.htm

 

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Posted: August 06 2010 at 3:01pm | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

I'm not sure if the uzi barrel nut would be strong enough to hold up to an assault rifle caliber round... but it was designed for a 9mm SMG, and therefore probably perfectly safe for the pistol caliber conversions.
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Posted: August 07 2010 at 6:13pm | IP Logged Quote Lasergunner

I never said an UZI Nut would be strong enough to use for an assault rifle caliber. What I am pointing out, by the two examples I gave, is a method that a homebuilder might use to swap out barrels and change calibers.

 

Last night. I got to thinking about how rails are used to attatch accessories to modern weapons. What if you didn't add rails to compliment or enhance the weapon functioning? (I'm not saying you shouldn't!)  Instead, made the rails intrinsic to the weapon so as to install the weapon furniture & trigger group to the weapon via the rails. In the case of the trigger group; via a rail type attatchment. The magwell could likewise be similarly attatched and changed out. This would make the reciever a modular platform for different configurations.

 

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  orions_hammer

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Posted: August 08 2010 at 2:42pm | IP Logged Quote orions_hammer

I really like the idea of using rails to mount major components!  Even very sturdy blank rail is really cheap, since it's just an aluminum extrusion.

One tricky part about home builds is aligning all the pieces, and a rail would give you at least one axis that you could shuffle parts along, to make room for longer cartridges or just to make the thing feed.  They also make "spacers" for rails, to add vertical height or offset to rail-mounted components, though they are spendy.

It'd be pretty easy to mill in female rail slots on the front trunnion + barrel assembly, magwell, and fire control group, thus making them all replaceable.  To make a usable weapon, you'd also need some sort of recoil spring holder and bolt guide; maybe you could integrate these into the rear trunnion. 

I'd definitely try to make the rail the legal "receiver"!
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Posted: August 08 2010 at 2:59pm | IP Logged Quote Holloway

orions_hammer wrote:
I really like the idea of using rails to mount major components!  Even very sturdy blank rail is really cheap, since it's just an aluminum extrusion.



I'm using those same rail blanks for my tactical lever gun. I order four and they all had a slight twist. The rail blanks from EGW are much better.
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