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ZB37 Semi Conversion
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  scatter cat

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Posted: November 21 2010 at 11:31pm | IP Logged Quote scatter cat

 Looks good Gary If you still have some after the first of the year I will get one.The wife getting laid off from her job really killed the extra fun money
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  ajmdreammg42

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 2:21am | IP Logged Quote ajmdreammg42

Thanks for the pic, I thought for sure I would be missing small pins , springs etc, Just going over the pic I think I have everything in my kits.

 

 

nlander wrote:
ajmdreammg42 wrote:

Hey can any body email a picture of all the parts in these kits?




Here's a pic of one of the older kits that have long sense vanished.



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  oprod

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 8:01am | IP Logged Quote oprod

Yep Ive one of the older kits as well., with a spare barrel.  Now I wonder if i should buy a centerfire kit or not? No I dont want to sell the barrel, just thinking out loud here. Gary I am  interested in knowing a little bit more about the semi conversion. Has any of these been done by whom you are buying the semi conversion kit and instructions from? Its odd he is showing you capt. Max's gun under construction. Is there a video of the gun running? Will the mods require us acess to milling machine and lathe? Or does the price include all the necessary machining, and if so can those of us with the equipment get a cheaper rate if we do the mods ourselves?
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  kdhibbs

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 9:21am | IP Logged Quote kdhibbs

this is NOT a flame, just the facts

Re: Centerfire ZB37 kits.CSI does not do the demil. Consider that the trashed bbl was demilled in Europe...most countries there see the bbl  a lot like ATF sees a receiver...so the bbl has  half length of chamber  and bbl milled away. Same for bore being welded and the pin through chamber. (this demil is nearly exact for an England legal dummy)

The slab sided shrouds are late ww 2 builds.
the rec'vr reweld is straight forward...no problems.  the bbl issue is easily solved with a bbl blank (Shilen's are 28" long and work well) the amt of bbl in from of the flash hider threads give you some 1" plus of leeway. Buy 2  blanks..one in 8mm, one in .30cal for 7.62x51.

this is not an AR15 assembly...rather a thought provoking BUILD...and requires some ability or skill. This is a different level...not as simple as AR15...but produces a much scarcer/desirable shooter.

Don't be discouraged...Tony at Wiselite  perserved and succeded....this hobby is successful b/c many good problem solvers work at it.

FWIW  I have a connection with Centerfire and get angry/amused when I see the whiners badmouth  the company. They   sell a product that  we can use to BUILD what we like.

Read between the lines and learn that assembly of parts (AR) is not the same as a REBUILD of a demil into a legal semi auto. Become  a person who overcomes the obstacles.

I know the ZB37 is doable...(75 % completed)  and the example  approved by ATF exists....Wiselite

you can also refinish the wood  grips/or make new ones (dowel material)   Used demilled guns are not new parts to assemble a National Match museum piece
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  AVMAN

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 9:31am | IP Logged Quote AVMAN

Put me down for a build as well as a barrel.  This looks great. 

Question:  Will the receiver be blued??

Let me know

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  jumanra

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 9:42am | IP Logged Quote jumanra

Is there going to be an email notification sent to members when this becomes available?
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  bikergunnut

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 12:38pm | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

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  bikergunnut

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

Ditto on the do it yourself discount on parts only .

But my welding needs practice so I'm in the air about which way to go. A ffl'ed receiver is always better too .

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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 5:34pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

Read the updated and clairified first post.

the welding of the receiver is not included (a full on build of the ZB37 is an expensive project as well as an FFL item and the required taxes)

All the parts needed for the conversion from Full auto parts kit, to legal semi-auto rifle are included.

This is a complete builders kit from Wise Lite Arms for those who want to save money and build it themselves  (for those wondering, $750 is cheap compared to the full on receiver build which is a couple grand and not performed one at a time but in blocks of 5 and 10).

This is the kit you need to convert the ZB37 on a budget and it's the only conversion kit (much less ATF approved) for the ZB37.

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  hill

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 8:04pm | IP Logged Quote hill

No one is questioning the price. Which is great. That's why i'm interested. I for one would like to know exactly what is involved with this build before deciding to get involved. Like for instance what tools should one have before considering this build? Look i have built a few rifles in my day but i don't have a machine shop. It sounds like there is some welding to do. Will i need a heat sink and or heat block paste? Will an arc welder do?   Do i need a lathe or milling machine? Or is this kit just for someone with advanced knowledge of the zb37's workings? I would like the chance to build one of these bgut want to be fairly sure i have the tools and technical knowledge to safely build it. Is there any instructions or do you buy the stuff then hope you can figure it out? I like to know how deep the water is before i jump in.
   Regards, HILL.........................
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  scatter cat

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 8:11pm | IP Logged Quote scatter cat

 kdhibbs  Glad you quit lurking and posted something. Here's some more facts.Reguardless who did the demill from a kit builders prospective the barrels are still Trash. I didn't say any thing bad about Centerfire I just stated the barrels with the kits are trash.Did that stop me from buying a kit no.If I had another extra 500 I would buy another. I like Centerfire and have bought quite a few things from them in the past. You also need to work on your pep talk a little.A lot of us here are way past the ARs,Fals,and Aks. Since you are connected to CFS keep the goodies coming. Some RPD belt loaders would be nice if you can get them.
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  oprod

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 8:12pm | IP Logged Quote oprod

Ok cool im in im in .
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  CaptMax

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 8:15pm | IP Logged Quote CaptMax

oprod wrote:
Yep Ive one of the older kits as well., with a spare barrel.  Now I wonder if i should buy a centerfire kit or not? No I dont want to sell the barrel, just thinking out loud here. Gary I am  interested in knowing a little bit more about the semi conversion. Has any of these been done by whom you are buying the semi conversion kit and instructions from? Its odd he is showing you capt. Max's gun under construction. Is there a video of the gun running? Will the mods require us acess to milling machine and lathe? Or does the price include all the necessary machining, and if so can those of us with the equipment get a cheaper rate if we do the mods ourselves?


As soon as I receive it I will do a range report and get some video to post. I think Gary covered everything else in his last post.
CaptMax
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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

jumanra wrote:
Is there going to be an email notification sent to members when this becomes available?

There will be a notice in this thread

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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 10:22pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

You will need to clean up the demilled receiver, and grind the cuts in a "V" shape so they will be easy to weld.

You will need to do some welding.  first to weld in the semi-auto blocking devices, and then to weld the receiver. when welding you should use copper backing strips for less cleanup (or just aluminum)

The mount, top cover and barrel will locate the total length of the receiver and the rest of the parts. in fact you can build a jig based on the hole locations to make the welding process easier.

as for welding, you can use Stick, Tig or Mig.just go slow to limit shrinkage.

The Bolt, Bolt Carrier etc will need some mill work (ask a local shop to do it), but the fitting I'm told can be by hand or Dremel.

So like all advanced builds it requires a little machine work, and a good amount of welding to complete, but once you complete it you have one of the best Heavy Machine Guns of WWII.

as for Barrels for those needing them, there was already a link posted for barrels.

But the other option being looked into is using modified M53 barrels and a few parts from the demilled barrel, or you could have a shop bore the barrel so it would fit a barrel liner, or even a barrel blank.

The action was designed for 8mm, but it should also work with 30.06 (assuming the correct barrel), and maybe even 7.62x51 Nato (once again with the correct barrel and you would need to open the gas port more)

This design uses the original push button trigger and  3 position selector, but now the selector has Semi, Safe, And Disassembly (rather than the two rates of full auto).

The original design was made by Len Savage, and then another designer, and now this much improved design by Wise Lite Arms is the third generation of ZB37 Semi-Autos.

The last batch of 5 ZB37's just finished being manufactured and are currently in the bluing process.  Once that batch has been completed I'll be provided a family photo showing the 5 completed ZB37's.  and trust me those will look like the day they were made with perfect weld lines and cleanup.  (trade secret, but they TIG weld them. Not surprised? well they prefer to use the Harbor freight TIG rather than the big expensive professional TIG due to the results they get)

There is a few videos of the ZB37 being fired and I'm waiting to get those videos via DVD in the mail. but if anyone else wants to post a video on YouTube I would love to see the results.

So, to recap..

as with most builds you will need to weld, grind, fit, mill/machine the build with the build time expected to be 120 to 150 hours.  this is not an AK or Sten, this is a real project like the Bren, Maxim, SGM, RPD, MG42, MG34. if you realize this is not something you just assemble, and that real work is involved in finishing it, then you will have no problem at all in building it.

Go slow, follow the diagrams and make quality the top priority and you will have a weapon fit for a museum or ready for the range.

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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 10:26pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

AVMAN wrote:

Put me down for a build as well as a barrel.  This looks great. 

Question:  Will the receiver be blued??

Let me know

Only if you Blue the receiver after you reweld it.. 

check the link posted today about the barrels

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  bikergunnut

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Posted: November 22 2010 at 10:31pm | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

I'm in .

As far as barrels, I'm also thinking an mg13 barrel will work too. I'm milling an adapter block to see for sure. Omega gave me one to play with.

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  ajmdreammg42

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 1:41am | IP Logged Quote ajmdreammg42

OK call me stupid but long mountain has them listed as BESA barrels, are they the same, they look like they are.
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  bikergunnut

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 2:10am | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

The zb37 was called the Besa in England. It was used in tanks. I still haven't found a picture placing where the mount came from in the Centerfire kits.

P.S. You will never be called stupid for asking questions, it's how you learn .

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  bikergunnut

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Posted: November 23 2010 at 2:16am | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

Here is some info and some pics on a chech forum, look for the little flag on the top right of each post and you can translate the post:

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/17115

Update the site now has Google translate with a dropdown selection.

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