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Trigger question
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  GunMaking

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Joined: February 22 2011
Posts: 19
Posted: October 30 2011 at 1:15pm | IP Logged Quote GunMaking

I am trying to understand the Holmes design for the open-bolt
9 mm SMG trigger as described in the Home Workshop Guns,
Volume 4, but there is something I can't figure out. I hope
someone could explain this for me.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/holmes1t.jpg/


As seen in the first drawing the trigger house seems to be
ready for firing. The trigger is in its forward position and
one can imagine how the bolt has been pulled back and is
hanging on the locked sear. The trigger bar has engaged the
sear latch with its first notch.

Now this is how I imagine the firing sequence for shooting
off a single round:

By pulling on the trigger the first notch of the trigger bar
pushes the sear latch forward which disengages the sear from
the sear latch, enabling the bolt to push the sear downwards
and run forward to pick up a cartridge. As the bolt moves
forward, the trigger bar is also pushed down and disengages
from the first notch and moves so that the second notch is
resting against the sear latch. This in turn will let the
sear latch push up again against the bottom of the sear.

After the cartridge has been fired and the bolt is on its way
back, the sear will be able to move up again and since sear
latch is pushing against it, it will lock in place and not
fire a second shot. The trigger bar is still engaging the
sear latch with its second notch and if the shooter relaxes
pressure on the trigger, the trigger bar will retract and
once more engage the sear latch with the first notch.
 
What I don't understand is that in the drawing, the trigger
bar bump is located on the left side of the sear. It seems to
me that if the bolt is hanging on the sear, the trigger bar
would already have been pushed down by the bolt thereby
engaging the sear latch with its second notch.

What is it that I don't understand here?

For a clearer view of parts, see below:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/holmes2.jpg/


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  duc748

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Location: Bosnia Hercegovina
Posts: 16
Posted: October 31 2011 at 2:16am | IP Logged Quote duc748

The trigger works in 2 stage, first for semi firing and 2 for FA.

Read page 42 from the pdf again. The working of the trigger is explained next to the trigger drawning.

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  machinist

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Location: Australia
Posts: 31
Posted: October 31 2011 at 6:40am | IP Logged Quote machinist

when the bolt is cocked the hump would be in a cutout in the bolt,so it gets tripped by the passing bolt,also that sear nose should not have the angle on the front of it,that would need fitting as the gun is built,the bolt would cam the sear down all the time as it appears to me,with such an angle on it.
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  GunMaking

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Joined: February 22 2011
Posts: 19
Posted: October 31 2011 at 9:21am | IP Logged Quote GunMaking

Thanks for the explanation. It seems there is something missing in Holmes book then, since I don't see any mention of cutting any slots for the trigger hump.

My idea of making it work was to use one arm of the trigger bar to push against the sear catch and to let the  other side of the trigger bar arm extend a bit further beyond the sear so that the bump/hump would be positioned on the other side of the sear nose.

As to the angle of the sear nose, I saw in some other of Bill Holmes books that he indicated a 50 degree slope. Should it be steeper? 75 degrees perchance?  I guess it will be down to practical experiments to determine. Will return about that.
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  GunMaking

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Joined: February 22 2011
Posts: 19
Posted: November 02 2011 at 3:08pm | IP Logged Quote GunMaking

I think I will just skip the Holmes solution until next time.

I will do this instead, the m45 Carl Gustav solution

You have to imagine a few pins and a spring on the bottom of the sear, but this is as easy as it gets.

I should have kept more material on the upper part of the trigger arms, which push down, that's where all the tension is, oh well!!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/100/trigger.jpg/











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  lefty08

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Posted: February 03 2013 at 6:15pm | IP Logged Quote lefty08

Have you looked at the soumi m31 trigger they seem really simple, just a thought.
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  Sagittarii

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Joined: January 03 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 717
Posted: February 05 2013 at 7:28am | IP Logged Quote Sagittarii

C19C5_F1_SMG_Semi_Full_Auto_Trigger.PDF

Once again the worlds simplest Open Bolt - Semi to Full Auto Trigger.

It is a but mushy (Could be adjusted in the making) Half pull gives Semi Auto Full pull gives full auto.

If you only want Semi just knock off lug marked B

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  clarence

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Joined: June 30 2012
Location: Netherlands Antilles
Posts: 8
Posted: February 05 2013 at 8:41am | IP Logged Quote clarence

Hi,

I want to ask if somebody can help me with the dimensions of the trigger group of the AK47 single hook of dobbel hook setup, because I am trying to make the AK47 from the plans of Orion's hammer AK47 in 24 hours.

Thanks,

Clarence
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