Weaponeer.net
Welcome Guest
Not a member yet? Register Now! or Login
3 members and 35 guests currently online.
Search Forums:
Site Partners

This site is Gunny Approved

 


Site Login
Username

Password

Auto Login
Add me to the active users list


Forgot password | Register

Online Users
Total Users Online: 38

We have 3 member(s), 9 spiders, 35 guest(s), and 0 anonymous users online.

Members Online:
nevawh60, Teawnbob, nevawh60


[ View Full List ]
[Based on the last 10 minutes]

The most online was 215 and occured on March 28 2013 at 11:38am.
We had 5 members, 203 guests, 0 anonymouse users, and 7 bots online at the same time.
Todays Visitors (328):
nevawh60, Teawnbob, CalvinVat, brandidk16, auroraer16, Charlespes, blancacp1, Mulhalawourb, shawnadf4, Arthurnor, benjaminya16, tarade16, richardxi2, davidyd69, MetalDveriKiev, rolandnz16, milagrosyo3, hagopalexan, maribelog3, faroukfun, consuelouu18, phyllisyj69, CurtisSig, katherynvv4, kristylg60, guns1977, colettedx4, azotas, BradleyGed, lavonnesd1, Bobbyknild, Tracyerymn, Faebarwourb, linavr1, kelseyqi60, urelewdiyec, moniquedv3, tedum11, Mashapiemy, JamesTer, oihuzamivb, belindabp3, lydiatk69, sharonnv11, Fetaurwourb, jefferyci3, Numslutt, clintongg1, Vodafossy, shooterike, neilhm11, aidaoh60, franciscajc16, bbrown, darylef18, queenua11, Jasonses, nicholeyg60, trinagl3, erickaae18, Randallencus, JessieAlmok, Willienar, Paulinewourb, yolandabb4, RandyRaf, Timothyunito, glocker21, felixne1, vernonrp60, charlottebh4, rosanneek60, rebaao18, tishajt1, JasonHaini, kristinase18, shawnaeu60, esmeraldafu3, keenia, Hellstaffwourb, deidrepp4, sophiens60, addievw4, Bartysmurl, ds1948, Kevintiz, ninack2, derrickrg60, Servicexvr, trinavn1, florencehi18, SatrapF, lynnbc2, backbencher, Annaoveva, daisydk11, mariettayd16, hilaryqc3, caitlinil1, jimdoc, uribusia, juliobx4, melaniegd2, Bundiswourb, levoib, theodorehq2, myrnamq60, tessahx16, sybiljy1, tyronecj18, MagnusJ, Cameronnow, WilliamVow, rheapf18, Jamesmex, Estarly, lucindasw1, ComprarLevitra, elviamt69, Serviceiot, fayepn1, beverleyil1, FarhetK, DerBatwourb, LulleyEsossy, julieql69, bikergunnut, charliefi2, jefferyud60, tylerjo18, ryche, kerrizt3, maricelath11, melotly, Roorse, patbn16, eyereuoqo, AmbroseOrido, Eynttohwourb, nicolexk18, Viatty, rebeccarm16, cliftonnr4, eleanorhj69, selmaxq1, kimsb2, jocelynac4, mauranf11, marissajx3, janinebx3, Phillipmar, concepciondw4, ErnestRew, daedpe, Helenapck, crffl, coreyjo3, winifredmg69, MichaelMor, Servicewlw, Countesswourb, benad69, evimisy, fredasc18, GrantNuh, galear1, franciscoux11, alexanderhp2, beverlyyh3, gracielawx69, terrywz11, Loyash, Excato, galelb18, lyndawe16, corinape16, essedneri, raymc1, louispo69, brentir2, Dagarwourb, dankd4, claudinevo11, taniazu2, shanapo11, gracielapc2, hollycq3, bettyoz69, shannontz3, daniellf4, minervayx1, Jerilynwourb, juliacf2, AnthonyInhes, rosemz2, Larrylit, deirdreqq18, debbieee69, daisyqf3, eularg16, henryyr4, RobertZero, jeffreyzs4, charlesyi16, louiskw60, raymondqf2, harveywk3, martinbz4, mariantx16, tamika, Mozevatryd, latoyall11, bethna4, geneuv60, kathyft1, ginaew4, trishasc18, MichaelElili, rubentd11, jonxx2, Stephengag, Pavlosbjp, biancaxq3, marquitalh3, normacl16, DemoChic, ernaxv2, Williampouri, KeithHap, Edwinbuiva, payomma, RobertGueri, carolyner4, franxe60, toniaar18, merlelb60, Geraldlaf, mywhela, Reemielwourb, brianang18, vickycp3, rhodath16, haleyfa2, joegm1, Israfacetex, meganvv3, vanessaqm60, christamj60, ivansj16, barbaraar3, lilliewo60, cliftonpi2, jacquelineju1, isabelcg4, angierc69, shawnmd2, Oriern, stacijt3, cecileuw3, maggieoh18, thomasob1, Dehrerwourb, hollievf3, bettiedr16, samkn3, amiemc1, krystalmq1, Smegma, GodFroxy, sherrietb69, ebonyrv18, Yasiaforeverwourb, ileneji4, bethzd3, abigailel16, sheliauw1, Jake1949, rondc4, amberwp2, constancejd69, gasket077, francescaka60, dixieko11, robertaqe69, Adoraninwourb, melisawj1, lakishamj3, helenhn3, lielajaw, shortfal, vernondl11, Tanner Frisby, derwood67, nevaci11, normanes11, m1a76251, estelarl16, Dizahnwourb, wendizp16, zacharyvf16, cheerb, penelopehi18, jenifertn69, Helenazoi, lucindase1, randyth1, helensw3, lolacf11, Pietrowiczwourb, davegu11, patsl3, markrj4, AbaraLuh, leonorsf1, lohStimb, loisic1, glenvx1, sadieuc60, jeremynp4, terriejq1, jimmielw18, nikkivo16, louiseok1, Anaragelvwourb, gregorydx69, lesapd16, almaxp11, lakishatx69

12ga.10ga.8ga,4ga FH; 700HE, Big Bores--
Weaponeer Forums : Open Forum

Posted in Open Forum
Members Viewing Topic: None

Post New TopicPost Reply
Prev Topic :: Next Topic
Author Message
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: December 14 2017 at 11:58am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Mass-delayed blowback ARs are done all the time for pistol calibers.  Very easy to build as it runs on a standard upper & lower, just uses a blowback bolt & bbl w/o locking lugs.  You should just buy a PSA AR kit and assemble one from scratch, that will answer many of your questions once you build one.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  KainKelly87

Avatar
Cpl
Cpl

Joined: November 29 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: December 15 2017 at 11:03pm | IP Logged Quote KainKelly87

backbencher wrote:
Mass-delayed blowback ARs are done all the time for pistol calibers.  Very easy to build as it runs on a standard upper & lower, just uses a blowback bolt & bbl w/o locking lugs.  You should just buy a PSA AR kit and assemble one from scratch, that will answer many of your questions once you build one.

Would shells this long work on a standard upper and lower? I would think the shell would be to long. Also how can I get away with no lock with out having to worry about case rupture?
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View KainKelly87's Profile Search for other posts by KainKelly87
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: December 16 2017 at 9:49am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

1 - No.

2 - Lots and lots of mass in the bolt.  Firing one of these monsters from a mass-delayed blowback you'd want a 50 lb bolt as a SWAG.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  KainKelly87

Avatar
Cpl
Cpl

Joined: November 29 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: December 16 2017 at 11:22am | IP Logged Quote KainKelly87

So long fat and tungsten? It that point I must ask if a rotating lock would not me cheaper if not easier and safer, not just to make but fire as well. Tungsten in my experience is brittal stuff.

~Kain Kelly
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View KainKelly87's Profile Search for other posts by KainKelly87
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: December 16 2017 at 11:42am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

That's why very few firearms mechanisms larger than .45" ACP use mass-delayed blowback.  Over a certain size, a locking mechanism just makes more sense.

The largest mass-delayed blowback action in current use that I know of is the Mk 19 40mm grenade machine gun in US service, and it weighs as much as a Ma Deuce even though it's much more compact.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  KainKelly87

Avatar
Cpl
Cpl

Joined: November 29 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: December 16 2017 at 12:37pm | IP Logged Quote KainKelly87

I am way over thinking machining locking lugs, in the receiver. Like the part that takes the lugs from the bolt on the breach, I cant come up with a good answer with out special tooling or a shaper. I circle back to 5 axis, a home brewed metal shaper, and sicker edm. EDM would be PERFECT if I had a 3d printer.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View KainKelly87's Profile Search for other posts by KainKelly87
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: December 16 2017 at 11:36pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Small 3-D printers aren't very expensive.  But they don't seem to be able to do much.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  KainKelly87

Avatar
Cpl
Cpl

Joined: November 29 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: December 17 2017 at 12:30am | IP Logged Quote KainKelly87

backbencher wrote:
Small 3-D printers aren't very expensive.  But they don't seem to be able to do much.

Odd my edit didnt save, from what I can tell when they broach a extension the lugs are straight not curved. all the curve comes from the lugs. The gas system will be so beefy I almost fear anti-gunners might mistake it for a cannon, but seriously I need to sit an do math to make sure I don't call a pipe bomb a gas system. if that's the case I am going to step back and figure a safe way to go about this. May end up with something looking more FAL then AR, no clue how that would affect sights. If that's the case maybe build a BAR style rifle as a alternative. I am getting ahead of my self on a problem I am not positive I have yet.

On a side note about budget 3D printers, if your going that cheap your in a lot of ways better off building one for about 50-75 more depending on the deal you get. The open source builds tend to have far better tech support then some china clone.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View KainKelly87's Profile Search for other posts by KainKelly87
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: January 11 2018 at 9:47pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Our short 585 BB would be easiest to be

used for autos..

Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making

our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed




We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action

between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,

375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without

having to do extreme rebating of the rim.


Here is picture of 620   416 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,

that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.

There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have

1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed..

This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make

them we can give the steps involved...Ed.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: January 11 2018 at 9:49pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making

our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed




We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action

between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,

375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without

having to do extreme rebating of the rim.


Here is picture of 620   416 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,

that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.

There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have

1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed..

This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make

them we can give the steps involved...Ed.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: February 12 2018 at 10:12am | IP Logged Quote hubel585

For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..
Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....

We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..



Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: February 12 2018 at 2:49pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

You're building monsters there.  Always glad to see your updates.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: March 04 2018 at 11:09pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases,
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.

And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be............



Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they
stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and
don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move
it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.

Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE
and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added



In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......

Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner
and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads
as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: March 05 2018 at 9:23am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

As much as the guns cost, and the cost of lead & powder you're throwing, brass life isn't too much of a concern.

Who makes the Nyati gma brass?
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: March 21 2018 at 6:03pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Our brass as it is made out of country, special order..
Takes pain in the ass, long wait times,
and act of congress to get it in, and very costly.

A few dozen shooters with one of these with short case
life, and production/import can't keep up.
GMA was made by Bertram. non around anymore..

Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''

Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.

Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.

Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..

. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.

Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .




Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed





Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: March 21 2018 at 10:39pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Nice.  So it's not the price, it's the availability.  Can they be turned from round stock?
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  hubel585

SFC
SFC

Joined: November 30 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 106
Posted: April 20 2018 at 10:25am | IP Logged Quote hubel585

If turned case can't do high pressures..

Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....



Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..

Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done
clear up to 550 gr...

So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..

Here is   416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed



Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View hubel585's Profile Search for other posts by hubel585
 
  backbencher

Avatar
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: February 26 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 4200
Posted: April 20 2018 at 9:33pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Lots of bolt thrust on the .50 BMG case.  But folks have built actions and put them on AR lowers, go figure.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View backbencher's Profile Search for other posts by backbencher
 
  KainKelly87

Avatar
Cpl
Cpl

Joined: November 29 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: June 15 2018 at 3:10pm | IP Logged Quote KainKelly87

Where are you getting 12 gauge barrels that thick?
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View KainKelly87's Profile Search for other posts by KainKelly87
 
<< Prev Topic Open Forum Next Topic >>

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 8
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum Jump


This page was generated in 4.3594 seconds.