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12ga.10ga.8ga,4ga FH; 700HE, Big Bores--
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  backbencher

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Posted: March 12 2017 at 12:03pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

So awesome.
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  hubel585

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Posted: April 25 2017 at 5:41pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.




Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases,    
2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..



Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.



Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..





Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed
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  backbencher

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Posted: April 26 2017 at 4:56am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Amazing.  Don't forget the 12.7x108mm Soviet.
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  hubel585

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Posted: June 26 2017 at 3:55pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..



Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.



Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..




Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed
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  hubel585

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Posted: July 23 2017 at 8:50pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that   case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..




More info out now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
and debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.


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  backbencher

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Posted: July 24 2017 at 8:45am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Always good to hear from you.
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  ds1948

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Posted: July 29 2017 at 1:00pm | IP Logged Quote ds1948

I love this thread and concept. What I have been theorizing is combing this idea with the AR-2 bullet shape design to mimic the 50 bmg ballistics from a 12 gauge plastic hull. With your earlier load data you mentioned that you got a 600 gr. slug to 2100 fps in a 3" plastic shotgun case with IMR. 4227 I think it was. If that is the case, a 1 oz. slug should be traveling at over 2600 fps from the same load data. Following that same chain of thought, a AR2 style 50 cal. bullet traveling at near 650 gr. velocity should give a similar trajectory because of the higher form factor for the lighter bullet and therefore better trajectory than a similar grained load. This is the same idea as the 5.56 FABRL except applied to 50 bmg using standard plastic 12 gauge. If we could work up a sufficient twist to stabilize such a bullet and work up data to get a 1 oz. slug to about 2900 to 3000 fps, this would mimic a 5o bmg trajectory from a much lighter firearm. BTW, 1 oz slug was chosen as that is about .6727 of 650. .6727 is the amount that the 37gr. FABRL projectile differs from the normal 5.56 NATO 55 gr. Figured this would be a good starting point.
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  hubel585

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Posted: September 13 2017 at 9:39pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

Well it would work with the 1 to 20 twist
rifled barrels that we used from Pacnor.


Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made by necking our 585 HE big belted case.




Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM on the right..




Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,





A 375 HE, with Lawton action, few are being done with those,Ed .....


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  ds1948

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Posted: September 16 2017 at 3:59pm | IP Logged Quote ds1948

would a 1 in 20 twist stabilize that long of a sabotted projectile? I know nothing about how a sabot affects the rifling of a projectile. An AR2 shaped 50 cal projectile would be almost 3 inches long if scaled from the 5.56 Fabrl and its size to a standard 55 gr. .224.
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  backbencher

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Posted: September 24 2017 at 9:59am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

You'd need to know velocity to figure out if it would stabilize.
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  ds1948

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Posted: September 25 2017 at 2:12pm | IP Logged Quote ds1948

Gotcha. After rereading the thread here, and at the other forums that Ed has posted this data on I think I found a solution. If I use a BPI sabot with a .50 caliber 420 grain AR2 shaped projectile with the proper wad and card set up, I should be able to get around 2900 fps while using about 50gr. of longshot powder in a 3.5" plastic case. Assuming this load is below 18000 psi, which Ed thinks it was when he tested a 420gr. .50 cal bullet using a sabot with the same set up, the primer should not leak and it would be able to fire from a standard 3.5" chamber just not a 3.5" action. Below is a link to the 5.56 FABRL study done by the army in case the idea I am proposing is not clear enough. As the FABRL study talked about using a projectile that is 5.5 calipers long, a .5 cal would be 2.75" long. As there is not .50 cal projectile that is that long and the required weight it would need to be made. That is the only down side of such an endevour. If someone has a 3d Printer you could do a rough shape and then forge it from aluminum? Another idea would be to print it with metal PLA whose density is near that of aluminum. The attached link mentions using projectile design to facilitate stabilization. Some of those designs would stabilize readily from a 1 in 10 or slower twist barrel in a .223. That means it could fire from a barrel designed to stabilize a projectile that is nearly 2/3 the length. Making it slightly nose heavy we could do the same in a .50. Its just an idea but it could drastically extend the range of a 12 gauge and if it was modern pressures it would be extra cool. Unfortunately I do not think I could design a drag stabilized AR2 .50 cal projectile that is the right length that could be fired from a smoothbore. Possible but I think the OAL would be too long. A 2.75" projectile in a 3.5" shotgun case is already nearly as long as a .50 bmg firing a standard length bullet! Hope this did not deviate the thread any, but Ed has shown you can get the power from a 12 gauge, so let us get the accuracy.   http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fullt ext/u2/765459.pdf
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  backbencher

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Posted: September 27 2017 at 7:39am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Why would you go to all that trouble to have a very long, ballisticly superior bullet, made of a relatively light material such as aluminum?
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  ds1948

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Posted: September 27 2017 at 2:43pm | IP Logged Quote ds1948

backbencher it is all about reducing the felt recoil of a particular weapon so the system can be made lighter while achieving the same ballistics with a lighter projectile. With a longer projectile and a higher form factor, but lighter weight, the bullet should have similar ballistics such as drop. In this case, the above weapon should match a military 650 gr. 510 bmg from a 12 gauge case in ballistics with all else being equal. Aluminium was chose as it is fairly common, machinable depending on the alloy, and can be forged easily enough. As it will have a sabot I do not need to worry about a jacket. Any inaccuracies should be due to the printing/forging and the sabot release and not with the science.
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  backbencher

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Posted: September 28 2017 at 4:06pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

I would be very surprised if you used an aluminum bullet and achieved similar ballistics to a much denser lead bullet.
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  hubel585

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Posted: October 09 2017 at 2:29pm | IP Logged Quote hubel585

A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/20404363_47055 8053312276_3772630570509533184_n.mp4


Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...




Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

and is checking on better powder, Ed..



https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecision/videos/2980311339 34093/?fref=gs&dti=321360231548869&hc_location=group
   
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  backbencher

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Posted: October 09 2017 at 4:07pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

hubel585 wrote:
A 585 HE ...shot with moderate heavy load......

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/20404363_47055 8053312276_3772630570509533184_n.mp4

Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...




Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started

and is checking on better powder, Ed..

https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecision/videos/2980311339 34093/?fref=gs&dti=321360231548869&hc_location=group


http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/20404363_470558 053312276_3772630570509533184_n.mp4

http://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecision/videos/29803113393 4093/?fref=gs&dti=321360231548869&hc_location=group

Always glad to hear more news of your monsters.


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