Weaponeer.net
Welcome Guest
Not a member yet? Register Now! or Login
2 members and 77 guests currently online.
Search Forums:
Site Partners

 

This site is Gunny Approved

 

Walther Handguns

Taurus Handguns

Springfield Armory Handguns

Smith & Wesson Handguns

Sig Sauer Handguns

Ruger Revolvers

Kel Tec Handguns

Ruger Handguns

Glock Handguns

FN Handguns

CZ Handguns

EAA Corp

Semi-Automatic Rifles

Saiga Shotgun

Ammunition

 


Site Login
Username

Password

Auto Login
Add me to the active users list


Forgot password | Register

Online Users
Total Users Online: 79

We have 2 member(s), 8 spiders, 77 guest(s), and 0 anonymous users online.

Members Online:
blaysngunz, neo00100


[ View Full List ]
[Based on the last 10 minutes]

The most online was 215 and occured on March 28 2013 at 11:38am.
We had 5 members, 203 guests, 0 anonymouse users, and 7 bots online at the same time.
Todays Visitors (67):

60% 1911 frames coming
Weaponeer Forums : 1911

Posted in 1911
Members Viewing Topic: None

Post New TopicPost Reply
Prev Topic :: Next Topic
Author Message
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: February 06 2013 at 5:43am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

All these Para Frame Castings from Sarco are made for the ramped Barrels. I chased down some info that i thought i would share on converting these frames to a 1911 Non-Ramped style Barrel. The cheapest that I found on Ramped Barrels if they had any or if you wait for 30 days was about $190.00 each.. There is a cheaper way to go..And use regular 1911 Barrels..

http://www.firearmsystems.net/shop/Accessories/ParablockGloc kBlock/p/Parablock.htm

http://shop.460rowland.com/ParaBlock%201911

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  ariel23

E-2
E-2

Joined: October 02 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 13
Posted: February 07 2013 at 1:41pm | IP Logged Quote ariel23

Been out of town but have been following responses and inquiries here. Really appreciate your input tr6. Ive 4 standard 1911 castings left plus these I need to cut. I need to make a jig so I can make all similar cuts in one sitting. Im awaiting arrival of some of the needed parts. Thanks again!
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View ariel23's Profile Search for other posts by ariel23
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: February 08 2013 at 8:06am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

Here are some Specs. on the Para Guns by Model...

http://www.fountainfirearms.com/para-ordnance/para.htm

The frames that i ordered which are the SA (Single Action) Wide Body are Actually the P13 Model which is 1/4" shorter than the P14 which will require different Grips. Some people on other Forums claim that the 14 round Mags will fit, but they make a 13 round mag specifically for this model so it makes sense to me to  purchase the 13 round and a 4.25" barrel...

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: February 08 2013 at 8:13am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

Regarding the cuts for setting up the ParaBlock, i copied this off of the Brownells web site...

Barrel Fitting the 1911 Auto

¡¡

By: Mike Watkins

You have just received your 1911 Auto match barrel. Now, how does it fit and how do you go about installing it in your 1911 Auto? Hopefully, the following procedure that I use in my shop will help you achieve the results you¡¯re looking for.

The first step is to measure the slide with a Digital Caliper #539-832-218 or #606-500-136 to determine the hood length. That dimension is measured from the breech face to the back edge of the upper lug in the top of the slide. Generally that is around 1.314", but every slide is a little different. It should fit tightly against the breech face but not so tightly that it inhibits pistol functioning. Next, the sides of the hood are cut and held square with the slide using a 1911 Auto Barrel Alignment Block.

You can measure the width of the breech face and transfer that measurement to the hood, then file or mill to the actual width needed. Another way is to hold the barrel squarely in the slide with the Barrel Alignment Block, paint the back of the hood with a black marker and gently tap the barrel against the breech face sides. You will have a mark to go by so you don¡¯t narrow the hood width too much when filing the hood by hand.

Now that the hood is fitted to the correct length and width, you can check to see if the barrel will lock up fully into battery. On match barrels, the rear lug will be oversized on the recess depth so you can fit it to the slide. The rear lug should be lowered until the barrel locks up fully to maximum lug depth. The theory is to center the barrel on the firing pin hole and have .040" to .045" lug engagement.

I prefer to have 0.45" or more lock up. The firing pin can hit a little off center and be just fine. However, that doesn¡¯t mean on the edge of the primer. You can measure the amount of lock-up in several ways. The simplest method is to place the barrel into the slide, make sure it does not touch the breech face and is not seated into the slide lugs. You want to use a loose bushing to support the muzzle end of a standard barrel so you do not have any binding.

If you¡¯re fitting a bull barrel, the O.D. of the barrel must be fit before you can measure lockup. You need to watch for, and prevent, barrel binding or springing as you push the barrel up into place, as they can adversely affect your measurement. Push up on the barrel, and, with a dial caliper, measure the distance from the top of the slide to the top of the barrel hood. Now slide the barrel back and up into the slide lugs and make the same measurement again. The difference between the two measurements will be the amount of engagement or lockup.

There are two approaches to fitting the bottom lugs on a 1911 Auto. You can use a milling machine to cut the bottom barrel lugs, or Brownells Lug Cutter that¡¯s operated by hand. Both work well and it just depends on the pistolsmith¡¯s preference and there of which procedure should be used. Everyone, through experience, develops their own technique that works for them. Maybe that is where the ¡®magic" of pistolsmithing comes into play.

I prefer the hand-cut method. This is where the bottom lugs are cut with the barrel installed in the frame. That reasoning comes from having the frame, slide, and barrel all locked into the tolerances it has to operate with. This way the lugs are in direct relationship with the slide stop pin that they are going to lockup on. The lugs are then cut square with the slide stop pin even if the hole in the frame is a few thousandths of an inch off center.

Now we¡¯ll cut the barrel lower lugs with the Lug Cutter. Align the barrel square with the Alignment Block and insert a Brownells 1911 Auto Barrel Holder into the slide. Or you can use the self-aligning, Brownells Barrel Alignment Gauge by itself to hold the barrel in place while cutting the lower lugs. Remove the alignment block and install the barrel slide assembly onto the frame and cut the lower lugs to lock on the slide stop pin. Be careful you don¡¯t cut too far and take metal off the back of the lugs. You should cut enough metal to allow the thumb safety to go into engagement.

Double check to make sure that after cutting, the disconnector is properly located into its slide recess as well. If the back of the slide and frame are not flush, you can remove metal later to blend them in. Continuing to cut the lugs to make the slide/frame flush at the rear will, most likely, over-cut the lug stopping point where it rests against the slide stop pin.

Remove the cutter and try the fit of the barrel against the slide stop pin. It should be tight and require a little hand fitting and polishing for it to lock and unlock easily. Don¡¯t take off too much. The lockup should still be firm, but not binding. The lugs should touch at the back and bottom against the slide stop pin. With that accomplished, measure the distance from the barrel link pin hole to the lugs where they rest on the pin. Choose a link the same distance as measured. Never open up either hole on the link!

Paint the sides of the lower lug feet with a marker and lay the link on the outside of the lugs using a link pin to hold it in place. With a scribe, rotate the link from its position of full lockup to the unlock position, at lest a 45¨¬ arc. Then scribe that arc on the sides of the lower lug feet and not where metal needs to be removed from both sides of the barrel lug. This will allow the link to swing freely through its movement.

Pre-marking the lugs this way and then removing only that amount of material will prevent the lugs and slide stop pin from bumping at the front of the lugs during its travel, which will affect accuracy and functioning.

The flat on the lugs should be as long as possible to lock on the slide stop pin for the best accuracy. This also delays the unlocking of the barrel for accuracy. I also believe it contributes to less recoil or muzzle flip in a compensated pistol.

With those clearances correct, install the link and pin into the barrel and hand cycle to check functioning. We will assume that we have the correct bushing or cone lockup at this pint. With the barrel unlocked and the slide back over the hood, you should have at least .005" clearance between the top of the barrel and the slide upper lugs. If not, the back of the barrel lugs could be hitting the frame as the barrel unlocks.

That contact point should be moved back around .005" at a time so that the barrel will have clearance to unlock. The sides of the barrel can also bind inside the slide right above the rail groove, so check that also. I remove that contact point from the slide rather than from the barrel if there is any binding.

Check to make sure the barrel is seated fully in the barrel bed on the frame and the bottom of the link is not bottoming out in the frame. When a ramp barrel cut is made, the link slot in the frame should be moved back about .040" to solve that problem. More on ramp cuts later. Now that we have a pistol that cycles without binding, yet locks up like a bank vault, we can proceed to chambering.

Using your digital caliper measure the end of the barrel hood to the case mouth ring in the chamber. Most match barrels are short-chambered and headspace will have to be set with a reamer. Even if the chamber length is correct, which doesn¡¯t happen very often, I still run a reamer into the barrel to make sure the chamber diameter is correct. This will also cut the lead-in taper into the lands. You can hand turn the reamer to check this without deepening the chamber. Just proceed carefully and remember the saying "cut a little, check a lot!"

I cut the chamber depth .002" to .005" over SAMMI minimum specifications, depending on caliber, to ensure that lead or fouling build up will not hinder chambering or ejection of a loaded round. Throating the barrel .10" will also help and lowers chamber pressure on the .38 Supers or other hot rounds. From my experience, throating will not adversely affect accuracy. Final dimensions will be up to you, of course.

Machining the frame wasn¡¯t addressed. Those dimensions will depend on the type of barrel ramp you have chosen. Consult the dimensions for your Wilson/Nowlin or Clark/Para ramped barrel.

Generally, with the frame level in the milling vise, you will touch the frame rails and then center the cutter in the frame slot. Lower a 3/8" (.375") center cut, end mill down .315" and machine slot through to the magazine well.

If you¡¯re fitting a barrel that has a Wilson/Nowlin ramp, you will now set the frame up vertically in the milling vise. Use a Nowlin Frame Bridge Cutter to move the frame lug slot back about .160". You can determine that amount by measuring from the slide stop pin to the face of the lug slot. Subtract the measurement from .495", and that will give you the depth. Remember to check your barrel specifications!

After the cut for barrel depth has been made, install the frame in the milling vise with the dust shroud pointing downward and the frame rails 45¨¬ from vertical. Cut a chamfer about .050" wide at the intersection of those two previous cuts. The edges of that chamfer should be beveled with a needle file, rounding them into a 1/16" radius.

On a Clark/Para ramp, the second cut is measured from the slide stop pin to the face of the lug slot. This cut is made with the frame level in the milling vise and is approximately .260" in length. The Clark ramp cut is rounded at the back of the lugs. Check your barrel again to see what the cut will look like. Remember; go by the specifications that came with your barrel.

Bushing-to-slide fit should be tight and a match bushing will have to be bored or reamed .001" over your barrel diameter. Chamfer the top rear inside and lower front inside of the bushing so the barrel can lock and unlock smoothly. Again, it should not bind or spring back when pushed up into the slide by hand during lockup.

Today¡¯s computer machined parts have resulted in tolerances that have increased the potential accuracy of the 1911 Auto design to new levels. Don¡¯t get in a hurry, check fit often, and you will have a pistol that is accurate and functions perfectly.

Agree x 1
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  ariel23

E-2
E-2

Joined: October 02 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 13
Posted: February 18 2013 at 4:59pm | IP Logged Quote ariel23

Ive finally had time to sit down and check this out further. Some of the needed parts arrived. What Im looking for now are external specs for the wide body sa. Having the parts, I may be able to fit the parts and blend the frame. Can anyone make a suggestion how to proceed?. Anxious to to get rock'in. Any leads appreciated
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View ariel23's Profile Search for other posts by ariel23
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: February 19 2013 at 6:02am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

What do you mean Blend the Frames? It looks like all the measurements are the same with the exception of the hole for the Main Spring Housing (and you will need a shorter officer model Housing) the barrel is Ramped. And of course the grips are shorter but if you have the replacement grips and its clearly marked on the frame then just match them up.. For the rest I'll refer you to...

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10185& ; ;PN=1

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: February 27 2013 at 7:24am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

I stand corrected on the information i posted earlier on the purchase of a Para Block to convert these frames for use with a Non-Ramped Barrel. It won't work, the Blocks were made apparently for their CCU Barrels as there is no way it will work with a regular barrel as the feet where the link attached with a pin is .362 and the Block is that dimension. Unfortunately i didn't find that out until i purchased 2 of them and started measuring. ......SORRY ABOUT THAT....Altho i am thinking about milling the frames .100" each side of the Slide Stop Pocket which are .200" and placing a steel insert of .562" and mill the center of that out to .362". It would look similar to the Para Block except have a wider center cut....
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  ariel23

E-2
E-2

Joined: October 02 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 13
Posted: February 28 2013 at 10:15pm | IP Logged Quote ariel23

I've found 3 p13 mags that fit loose in the mag well. Are   they the same dims as p14?   Any,thing I can do to tighten this up ?
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View ariel23's Profile Search for other posts by ariel23
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: March 01 2013 at 7:13am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

The P13 mags that i have which are Marked from Para are also a little loose and the P14 should be the same width just holds 1 more round.  I purchased mine from CDNN Sports for 20.00 each, and it depends on what finish you are going to place on the frames and slide. I plan on using Lauer Weaponry Spray finish which will, i think finish up just right. Better to be a little loose than two tight.. 
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  northumbrian

Avatar
MSG
MSG

Joined: August 21 2012
Location: France
Posts: 251
Posted: March 01 2013 at 1:38pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Been enjoying reading this thread, as I do love the 1911, but I am going to have to find a way to get these castings over in France.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
Hmmm... 1911 or P210?
Sod it....
Both
  Status: Offline
View northumbrian's Profile Search for other posts by northumbrian
 
  ariel23

E-2
E-2

Joined: October 02 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 13
Posted: March 01 2013 at 10:24pm | IP Logged Quote ariel23

I have commercial slides. I'm not sure what series they may be. Where can I download specs for series 70 and 80 slides, I dug around and found I still had a handful of slide castings. Internal width puts them short of the frame rail depth. (5/8 .625). This is where the filler comes in? Id rather not use them if I don't have to. Which series will give me less problem fitting. I've an AR project near completion. Looking forward to working on these.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View ariel23's Profile Search for other posts by ariel23
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: March 03 2013 at 7:52am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

The Frame rail depth does not have anything to do with the filler piece.. Look on the back of the frame where the hammer goes there is a extra Space next to the hammer that has to be filled so that the Sear and Hammer don't wander over to the Right.

Maybe a picture is worth a thousand words....

 

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: March 03 2013 at 8:01am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

The picture below shows what you need to finish it.
The triangular, flat piece of steel with the holes in it shown above the hammer
is the Filler Plate used to fill the space for a Series 80 Safety Assembly.  This was copied off the internet...

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: March 03 2013 at 8:07am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

The series 80 Slide has a hole underneath that gets a blocking pin and spring for a firing pin safety.. The 70 series doesn't have that, it only has a shallow concave cutout for the Disconnecter.. 
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
  tr6guns

Avatar
Level 3 Site Sponsor
Level 3 Site Sponsor

Joined: November 04 2006
Posts: 1433
Posted: March 03 2013 at 8:19am | IP Logged Quote tr6guns

This is a schematic of the P13 that i downloaded from Brownell's showing all the parts. The filler piece replaces the #46.. I hope this makes things a little clearer..

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
I'm not so smart that it hurts me, but i'm a long way from being stupid
  Status: Offline
View tr6guns's Profile Search for other posts by tr6guns
 
<< Prev Topic 1911 Next Topic >>

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 2
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum Jump


This page was generated in 4.8281 seconds.