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6.5x54r Mosin Nagant build
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 4:13am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Not so long ago I picked up a deavtivated Mosin Nagant 91/30 barreled action, no stock.

The level of butchery, on this thing is enough to make you cry, but still enough of it left to use for a scratch build.

As I live in France and military calibers are restricted and I don't have my licensing for military weapons yet.

I decided to do this build in 6.5x54r.

To do this I need to lift every measurement I can off the original, produce drawings so I make the new parts.
Get a new barrel made for it, which I will get from Border Barrels in Scotland.
Make a new receiver, bolt, stock and magazine, so pretty much a complete new rifle.
I know many will accuse me of destroying a piece of military history, but I'd like to remind them, I'm not the one who butchered it in the first place.

Anyway here's the pics.



Here is the action after I'd chopped the barrel off, the barrel is pinned and welded in place so I could not remove it.




The bolt showing the level of butchery inflicted upon this weapon




The receiver again showing the level of butchery inflicted.

The bolt is very stiff, but the trigger is very crisp, bit heavy but crisp, with not much take up, so at least I can use the original trigger.
I will try and use as much of the original bolt as I can, but I think I'll have to make up quite a lot of new parts for it.

I'll post some more pics later as I get more of the gun apart, and I'll do a detailed pictorial of how I measure everything, what tools I used and how I used them.
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 8:30am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Mosin parts are really cheap in the States, we're kinda awash in 'em.  The older receivers we send through the mail (pre-1899), & not long ago I bought 2 bbl'd receivers in Tulsa for $15/ea.

You need a new bolt head & firing pin; are you able to drill the screw out & then cut the bbl out?  Or is too tightly welded in place?

Are you able to receive gun parts in the post in France?  To Americans, only the receiver is the weapon, all else can go through the mail.

If you're going to build a receiver from scratch, you might look @ using a more modern screw thread for the receiver - for most of the parts, really.

The trigger can be refined to a fare thee well.  My Remington is under 3 lbs - I can't remember if it's around 2 & 1/2 or 1 & 1/2 lbs.  My brother was amazed.  There is an aftermarket trigger available, but costs more than the rifle does over here.

Scope mounts are easily available, either to tap your receiver or replace the rear sight for a LER mount.

6.5x54R should be sweet - would love to know what that would do suppressed.  It's been more than 100 years since Mosins were built in France - glad to see one made again.
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  backbencher

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 8:49am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

http://7.62x54r.net/ is where you want to start.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Thanks Backbencher, I am going to produce most of the parts I cannot reuse myself, so Bolt head & Firing Pin are on the list to make.
The Barrel is, as I said, pinned & welded, but the only weld is on the head of the pin, so I maybe able to grind off the weld and get the pin out.
I can get parts online in France, and receive them on the post, so I can get most of what I want, but I just want to make the parts I need.
The receiver, that is going to be a new "design", so to speak, with scope mounts built in.
Trigger, I'm going to see exactly what can be done with the original, so you never know

I've been looking at 7.62x54r.net, got loads of stuff on there.

Any way more pics to follow, got all of it stripped down now.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 11:32am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Thread sizes, I think for screws I'll go with metric, as it is made in a metric country, but for the barrel threads, imperial, probably 1 1/16" x 16 TPI for the shank, and 1 1/4 for the cylinder then go for a heavy sporter profile, but we'll see how it goes.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 11:44am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

More pics

Here is the bolt group disassembled.





The bolt body, needs some attention, but I think it is usable.
The firing pin is a very sloppy fit, so I think I'll ream the bolt body out, and make a slightly oversized firing pin, but I'll wait until I've made the firing pin and I'll see if the bolt body needs reaming.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

The receiver even if it had not been butchered, IMHO is unusable, the pitting is quite severe.



As you can see, the pitting is quite deep, so I don't know about anybody else, but I really don't fancy firing a round off in this oubt:

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 11:58am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

The Magazine probably has the worst pitting of the entire weapon

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 12:00pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Some more pics of the bolt head




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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 12:03pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

The extractor's buggered, but intact enough to get useful measurements off it.



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  backbencher

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 1:04pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Are you building one for fun, or just b/c you can't find parts?  B/c the parts, & I rather think the measurements, are out there.

As far as your receiver goes, I'd be more concerned about the extent of pitting up front than in the back.  What's the date under the tang?  Wonder how it got to France - German capture or FFL capture (sorta the same thing ; )?

You're going to make the bolt head?  You know we can just mail you one, right?  B/c that does need to be hardened steel, @ least up to 1890's standards.

I'm beginning to think you have way too much time on your hands here ; )
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  northumbrian

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 1:22pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I am setting up here as a gunsmith, so this is a show it off sort of project.
But the French love their paperwork, so whilst I wait for my license to come through, I just thought I'd play.

The rifle was deactivated in the UK, I brought it over when I moved.

The bolt head I am going to make from either 4140 or 8620 with appropriate heat treatment, just depend upon what i can get over here, it's looking likely it'll be 4140, the same as the receiver.

The main problem with the receiver is when they deactivated it they ran an angle grinder down the barrel and into the receiver,if you look at the 6th & 7th pics you'll see a slit is cut along the length of the receiver, this really buggers up the hoop strength of a receiver and renders it useless.
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Posted: May 31 2013 at 1:26pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Although, thinking about it, if one of you could get hold of a bolt head for me and send it over I'd be very grateful
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Posted: May 31 2013 at 4:35pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I found a bolt head over here in France, they want 95 Euros for it

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  Sora-tobu chiru

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Posted: May 31 2013 at 5:33pm | IP Logged Quote Sora-tobu chiru

backbencher wrote:
6.5x54R should be sweet - would love to know what that would do suppressed


One below is better candidate for suppresed rifle:





It is quite good moose round and it isn't "barrel eater" like 6.5x54R (in fact it is even more gentle than 7.62x54R).


northumbrian wrote:
The main problem with the receiver is when they deactivated it they ran an angle grinder down the barrel and into the receiver


That receiver isn't definitely lost!

Do You remember those deactivated(butchered in "civilised way") Lee Enfields that Saxby&Palmer were selling (and all those later brocock "reworks")?

Well, You are in France now - so why not make one from scratch?
"Thanks to" so called "Anti-social Behaviour Act" You can get BACS pumps and patrons for next to nothing in UK (I bought mine for few quids).
It can be excelent gunsmith project and nice garden/indoor plinker.



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  northumbrian

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Posted: June 01 2013 at 2:54am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

If I am correct, the main problem with the original 6.5x54r was it used berdan primers and blasted all sorts of corrosive crap down the barrel and caused a lot of throat erosion.

I can get boxer 7.62x54r brass from Prvi Partizan, neck them down to take a Sierra Match King 142gr .264, and that should hopefully be a gentler on the barrel.

I do remember those Lee Enfields, basically anything deact before 1995 was done nicely, just after 1995, everything is butchered big style.
Unfortunately The cost of pre95 deacts can be stupidly high and it doesn't need to be.
But at the end of the day I want my Mosin Nagant.

I was thinking last night about the receiver, I might be able to do something with it, I don't know until I get the barrel out.
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Posted: June 01 2013 at 4:55am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Here's a pic of the welded pin holding the barrel in place.




You can just about see the pin in this shot


Weld ground down

Using a centre drill to spot the pin so it can be knocked out
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Posted: June 01 2013 at 5:02am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Well I've got the barrel out of the receiver


One barrelless receiver





I am beginning to think the receiver may not be a right off after all.
Just got to figure out how I'm going to weld it
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Posted: June 01 2013 at 7:34am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Boy, they know how to hose up a receiver, don't they?  Our lads here have discovered our lovely BATFE requires torch cuts instead of saw cutting - but happily not in the same place on each receiver!  So they take two Mosin receivers, torch cut 'em both into 3 pieces, then mix & match the bits, grinding down the excess until they have a new receiver that has never been a rifle.  Then they build their legal Obrez pistol/flamethrower.

Unfortunately, this fella's sold out of bolt heads & complete bolts:

https://www.buymilsurp.com/mosin-nagant-parts-accessories-mo sin-nagant-rifle-parts-c-2_3.html

Will keep looking.  I'm not in the country right now or I'd buy 3 @ the next gun show & mail 'em you.
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Posted: June 01 2013 at 7:45am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

https://sites.google.com/site/roscoeworld/home/mosin-nagant- trigger

http://maxshepherdboltproducts.com/

Looks like MaxShepherd has bolt heads for $17, but doesn't ship outside the US.  Perhaps one of the other members here could help you out & drop something in the post to you.
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