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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 21 2013 at 2:22pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

OldCoot, I think that's why I've never been a fan of revolvers.
Mare's Leg, I thought that was a Hollywood special
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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  OldCoot

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Posted: July 21 2013 at 3:00pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Taurus brought it out a couple of years back, in .357, .44 Mag and .45 Colt.  I've been looking at one for a while now.  The .357 in particular looks like a very handy item.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 21 2013 at 3:05pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I've seen it in a few movies, I honestly thought it was a Hollywood creation.
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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  OldCoot

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Posted: July 21 2013 at 4:06pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Originally, it was a Hollywood copy of a gun that one of the old-time coach guards carried in Northern California shortly after the Civil War.  Chopped-down Winchester of 1866 or 1873 persuasion, in, I'd suspect, .44-40.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 21 2013 at 4:24pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

And now they use the puny 5.56mm in an M4 with a 10.5" barrel.
Not quite sure if you can call that progress
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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 7:45am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

Believe me I would love to have a Luger again. I did have a 6 inch barrelled DWM Luger that I foolishly got rid of, after my ex missus started moaning about it.
I would like to get a long barrel one in .22 with the stock arrangement, it would be a cracking little gun to take down the range, a real talking point.
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:05am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

THe laws here are not quite as simple as taking something and screwing on a longer barrel.
If the gun is a 12" barrel and 24" overall then it is a section 1 firearm, but IF at any point it drops below those measurements it becomes a section 5 prohibited weapon, and once it becomes a section 5 it can never be anything else.
The long wire understock that is found on the bottom of the backstrap on most UK spec 12" barrelled handguns is a case in point, IF you want to change it to a simple rod type, then the new rod has to be attached BEFORE removing the old one as once the wire understock is removed it drops below minimum length and becomes a section 5 prohibited firearm.

The UK firearms laws are a mess of hastily drafted knee jerk legislation rather than a coherent system of ownership regulation. Whilst I would like to see them amended in a positive direction for ownership, I fear that any further amendment would be more punitive towards ownership than ever.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:21am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I can produce it with the barrel fitted so that the overall length from the muzzle to back strap of the grip is a minimum of 24"

The barrel can be fixed in place so it cannot become a section 5.

At the end of the day, the law recommends taking your firearm to a registered firearms dealer to carry out any work to the gun.

But you can have a Remington 700 with a 24" barrel chambered in .223 and then change the barrel to a chambering in .22/250. The barrel has to come off, the overall length instantly drops below 24", but you can within the law change a barrel, so long as the new barrel is the same length as the old one or the overall length remains over 24".
Routine maintenance and upgrade work is allowed, so long as it when it is put back together as a firearm it complies with the law.

Bottom line: the barrel & frame WILL be over 24"

I was lucky enough to hold an open section 5 license up till 2006, just did not renew it.
Too much of a pain in the arse
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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:28am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Oh before I forget, the Luger pic I posted earlier was a carbine version of the Artillery Luger market at civilian ownership, not the military.

From the few people I now who have one, they say it shoots beautifully, and is incredibly accurate, especially with the stock fitted.
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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

northumbrian wrote:
I can produce it with the barrel fitted so that the overall length from the muzzle to back strap of the grip is a minimum of 24"

The barrel can be fixed in place so it cannot become a section 5.

At the end of the day, the law recommends taking your firearm to a registered firearms dealer to carry out any work to the gun.

But you can have a Remington 700 with a 24" barrel chambered in .223 and then change the barrel to a chambering in .22/250. The barrel has to come off, the overall length instantly drops below 24", but you can within the law change a barrel, so long as the new barrel is the same length as the old one or the overall length remains over 24".
Routine maintenance and upgrade work is allowed, so long as it when it is put back together as a firearm it complies with the law.

Bottom line: the barrel & frame WILL be over 24"

I was lucky enough to hold an open section 5 license up till 2006, just did not renew it.
Too much of a pain in the arse


f**king hell I'd have cut my left bollock off for a section 5 ticket!!!! Well not quite but you get my drift
I would love to get one of the Advantage Arms Glock .22LR conversions, but I don't know how legal it would be in the UK even with a long barrel and underwire, being as it would simply convert back to a 9mm or whatever with a simply 30 second slide swap.
I don't know how the law would stand on that.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 9:28am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

The Luger P08 is a good safe bet for the UK, as it cannot be converted back very easily, or can be made in such a way as it's not possible to change it, such as the barrel being pinned and fixed in place, the receiver can be machined to only allow enough room for a .22LR.

All of this just makes it a safer option in the UK, as it can be produced to UK legal specifications.

Any design by J.M Browning, (Glocks use a Browning action) can being changed to any other caliber, by swapping parts.
The Luger by it's very design is not so easy to do so.

The trouble is no one makes a Luger of this type.
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It was called Schindler's List
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 1:47pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

There were a couple of manufacturers that made the Luger in .22lr, so I suppose if I tracked one down somewhere outside of the UK, and had a long barrel fitted and an underwire from the backstrap, then it would all be perfectly legitimate.
I've always liked the appearance of the Lugers, they have a certain appeal
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 22 2013 at 3:01pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I suppose that's one option, that is if you manage to find one.

I think a lot of the appeal is the ergonomics, that 55deg grip for a start.
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It was called Schindler's List
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 10:05am | IP Logged Quote ryche

Oh Man you guys started talking Lugers and no body told me

Ukbiker Erma made a copy of a navy luger in .22 back in the 70's
The barrel is only 6plus inches but if you can get one it might be a good place to start.

North: love that pic you showed on the Luger carbine but i wouldn't shoot mine as it was made in 1902. they were last made in 1906.
Strictly commercial sale. What few parts avlb. are PRICEY!!. There were several other long barrel versions for commercial sale as by the 1920's with the depression,
If you had the money anything was possible. My father and i have been collecting 20's commercial variants for years.

If you look in the weapon hist. thread there should be some pics of my collection, which has been added to since the photos were taken. Most recently a Turkish contract, one of the rarest out there.
The Luger has been a lifelong love affair for me i started working with them at age 9 when my father taught me how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble.
Anyway now that i have splashed the thread i'll shut up now
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 11:08am | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

The one I gave away was I think an 1898 dated DWM, with about a 6 inch barrel. I found it when I was clearing out my late uncles shed, and he had machined a slot into the barrel just in front of the chamber so it couldn't be fired, although a barrel swap would have cured that.
I was really happy with it, however my ex missus went mad about it, and in an effort to retain a quiet life I told here I'd got rid of it, when she subsequently found it in my shed a couple of months later I got so much earache about it I gave it to a friend who collects old British and German stuff.
I really wish I'd kept it, as now I'm single again I've only got my Great Dane to answer to, and he don't mind as long as he gets a biscuit
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 11:49am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

OK, I am going to say it, as I am setting up here in France as a gunsmith, specialising as a pistolsmith.

I will try and remanufacture the P08, at a sensible price, and I will try and produce a model that is legal in the UK.

At the moment I am setting everything up for the 1903 & 1911, but IF and I stress IF the market will support a reproduction P08 I will make them.

Ryche I can wait to get over to the US to visit as many of you as I can, I would really love to see that collection of yours.

UkBiker, if your wife could find the P08 in your shed you really need to work on your hiding stuff skills
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged Quote ryche

As i remember 1900 was about the earliest but could be wrong.
Either one would be very collectible. Can you get it back from your buddy?  i hate when the wifes find something like that and we all look like bad little boys
I also posted a pic in the gun pics thread(i think?) titled my new toy a 1917 Eurfurt artillery serial #99  man was that a happy find.
Anyway if you can find that Erma i spoke about it might be a good starting point.  also check the photos in the weapon history there is a pic of my Luger carbine with the stock attached.
Anyway good luck
Ryche
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:05pm | IP Logged Quote ryche

Hey North: there was a guy in Texas who did the new builds on most P08 variants. They were expensive and problem ridden  remember all lugers were hand fitted which is why they went to the P38, multiple factory produced and all in spec to fit with no hand fitting( Yeah RIIIGHT).
I doubt that the market will support the amount of time involved without 30 other guys helping you fit them. But hey depending on time and price i could be interested in a "Northumbrian built P08"
In the U.S. Lugers are fairly avlb. but the shooters are all pretty much gone and collectible stuff is climbing price wise.  There are alot hitting the market as some of the older collectors are dying off and the family has no interest or clue about the pistols. Consequently because its a luger they think its worth a fortune. I have had to burst a few bubbles at gun shows recently about asking prices.   Look into building but i think time spent would be much better on the 1911 and the 03 or even the browning high power.
Just my 2cents
Ryche
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:09pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

northumbrian wrote:
OK, I am going to say it, as I am setting up here in France as a gunsmith, specialising as a pistolsmith.

I will try and remanufacture the P08, at a sensible price, and I will try and produce a model that is legal in the UK.

At the moment I am setting everything up for the 1903 & 1911, but IF and I stress IF the market will support a reproduction P08 I will make them.

Ryche I can wait to get over to the US to visit as many of you as I can, I would really love to see that collection of yours.

UkBiker, if your wife could find the P08 in your shed you really need to work on your hiding stuff skills


I didn't even know she had a key for it!!!!

I'm pretty sure it was 1898 but I may be wrong, I thought the earliest was 1893?
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:16pm | IP Logged Quote ryche

Ok just went and checked Georg Luger started working on it in 1896.
The 1st model to hit the market was in 1900.
Are you talking about the Borshardt??? It was the predecessor to the Luger and used a toggle action.  Otherwise you had a very rare early prototype would be my guess.
Ryche
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