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converting 9mm PAK blank to .380 live
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:25pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Ryche, I think it is worth looking into. I feel it would be a crime for the P08 to fall into obscurity and never be fired again.

The amount of fitting required for a 1911 is just as much as the P08, I've spent a lot of time looking in to both designs every historical record on the production methods, machinery used etc.

Kreighoff, are selling new P08's for $17500, i think they are taking the piss, and cashing in on the Luger name.
At the end of the day the P08 was designed for mass production. One of the lathes I have is set up for mass production, and is more than capable of producing P08 parts quickly and accurately.
The hand fitting for me is part of the reason I am a gunsmith, I just love doing it.
So long as I can pay the bills, I'm not interested in getting rich.
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  UKBiker

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:44pm | IP Logged Quote UKBiker

Well North if you do manage to produce a UK compliant version in .22lr I will be jumping on my bike and riding over to you to collect one
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:45pm | IP Logged Quote ryche

"So long as I can pay the bills, I'm not interested in getting rich"

Have i told you how much i like you
That is the way i think, i do it because i love it.

If you want to go into production i'm not gonna stand in your way but $17000 for a new produced piece i cant do. Hell for that kinda money there are many very collectible pieces i'd rather have.
I didn't know Krieghoff was still in business much less producing a new P08.

I don't think the Luger will ever fade from sight its been a bad guy gun in the movies since the 30's  You never see a gangster carrying a p-38.
The good guys carried 1911's and the bad guys carried Lugers

Oh and i shoot two of mine on a regular basis because they fit just right.
NOT a Glock fan they don't fit right. I carry a Polish Radom or a Walther ppk most of the time.

Anyway interested to see how the parts come out if you do...
Ryche
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 1:12pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

Ryche, sorry mate but I'm married and your not my type

Well, that's the price last time I heard. If Kreighoff are out of business, at least we know why.

In my opinion, a P08 should not cost more that twice that of a decent 1911, and that is a conservative estimate.

Materials wise the quantity is much the same as the 1911, so on that front should be around the same price.
The cost comes in when metal is being cut.
The tolerances in the P08 are much higher than the 1911, but the design only really works when you work to those tolerances. To me the P08 has always been the better design of the two, but I still love the 1911 and would never replace a 1911 with a P08.
Like wise I'd never replace a P08 with a 1911.
Both are a work of art, and gunsmithing is an art.
Anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their arse.

In this day of mass produced plastic, we need real guns made from real steel, finished with love and attention they deserve.
That's why people still love the 1911 & P08, they are real guns made from real steel, and they fit the hand like no other.

We are perfectly capable of making guns to this standard again, but most of the big names are too busy lining their pockets with the money gullible people give them for the plastic sh*te they make.

Oh, and so everyone knows I absolutley F***ing hate Glocks
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  ryche

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Posted: July 23 2013 at 8:59pm | IP Logged Quote ryche

Hey hey hey buddy  i said like!!! not love besides it would get really weird
since my wife and your wife don't know each other

I agree with ya on the cost and i'm sick of the plastic sh**t on the market these days. No individuality they all look the same. (goes for cars too)
Thats why i carry a polish Radom if i can't take the weight then i don't need to carry.  If i need to go small due to a formal function then the PPK goes with me filled with really nasty hollow point to make up for the power reduction.  When i took my son to see the batman movie about a week after that f**khead shot up the theater the PPK was in my hip pocket...
Not visible and easily reachable.
See there i go wandering off track again  Da**n beer...
Anyway if you can produce a modern made luger i would love to own and add it to my collection.  Plus it would be Northumbrian built so that would have to be engraved on the side...
Ryche
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 24 2013 at 2:41am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

There's going to be a lot of work involved with getting a brand new P08 production going, all the tooling needed, the marketing, distribution etc.

It's probably going to take 2 years at least to get it in to a viable product.

The 1911 & 1903 are fairly easy designs to produce, and I have already done most of the hard work on them. the 1911 is well provided for, in terms of drawings, and technical data.
The 1903, is very similar to the 1911 is many respects, so getting that one into production is also going to be an easy one.

The P08 on the other hand I have not done any real work on the design, as it's always been a project for the future. But if the market will support a new production line of P08's then it'll be worth my while to get my arse into gear and start working on it.
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It was called Schindler's List
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  ryche

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Posted: July 24 2013 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote ryche

AAAHHH Market schmarket  you can save it for a retirement project

Anyway i would be interested 2 years or not. I know a couple of others who might also....
Do you have a picture of the 1903??? I have a couple of small colts laying around i will have to look and see what they are.. i don't know.
Ryche


P.S.  And i still like you though
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  northumbrian

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Posted: July 24 2013 at 10:52am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

ryche wrote:
P.S.  And i still like you though:shock


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I watched a movie once, where the only people with guns are the Police & military....

It was called Schindler's List
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  OldCoot

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Posted: August 04 2013 at 10:54am | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

You  know, the toggle lock is one that would adapt fairly well to a  gas operated opening system. and a rigid frame.  That would make an already accurate system even more so.  Something like the Reed .22 Express would be a gangbuster in a gun like that, and i've always liked the Artillery Luger....
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 04 2013 at 11:38am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I seem to recall a toggle operated rifle with a gas system, but I can't remember what it's called or who made it. I've had a look in Hatcher's notebook, but I can't seem to see the wood for the tree's.
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  OldCoot

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Posted: August 04 2013 at 12:53pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

There's a japanese patent from the 1930s in one of my files that used this method.  I think Furrer used it in a machine gun at one point in Switzerland at the arsenal.  I always thought it would be a good system for a pistol, given the rigidity with which it locks up.
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 04 2013 at 1:49pm | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

The question is do you set it up to act on the breech block or the toggle link?

Be interesting to see which works best
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  OldCoot

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Posted: August 11 2013 at 1:57pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

I've looked at pushing an angle face into the toggle link, in about the same way the frame lifts it out of battery in the original, except I'd be pushing the link up from the front.  That's the simplest way I can think of to handle the business.
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  ryche

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Posted: August 12 2013 at 9:36am | IP Logged Quote ryche

You guys are way out of my element, i do better with things that already exist.  However i am really interested in owning one of the final product.
With that said if i can be of assistance let me know.
Ryche
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  northumbrian

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Posted: August 13 2013 at 6:41am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

OldCoot wrote:
I've looked at pushing an angle face into the toggle link, in about the same way the frame lifts it out of battery in the original, except I'd be pushing the link up from the front.  That's the simplest way I can think of to handle the business.


That's pretty much my thinking too. I suppose we'll know when one of us tries it.
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It was called Schindler's List
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  wilhelm

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Posted: December 12 2013 at 7:37am | IP Logged Quote wilhelm

northumbrian wrote:
If you don't fancy a 1911, I am working on a set of 1903 Pocket Hammerless blueprints, which can be chambered in .32 ACP or .380 ACP.

When I've got them finished They'll be posted on here.

 

Did you ever finish those 1903 Hammerless blueprints, Northumbian?

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  northumbrian

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Posted: December 12 2013 at 7:53am | IP Logged Quote northumbrian

I have a few bits missing, which I need to track down. once I have them I'll have a full set of drawings ready to go.
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It was called Schindler's List
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  Ripski

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Posted: December 28 2014 at 5:33am | IP Logged Quote Ripski

Guys, have you thought abut something like this?:
1. Buy a grand power g9 and drill barrel diameter to 10 mm (on lathe ofc)
2. Buy a lothar walther barrel 6,35/12 mm then resize it on lathe to 6,35/10mm.
3. Press the 6,35/10 mm barrel to the handgun by using a press (freezing barrel to -60' degresee to make it smaler before and put some welding glue on it then press into the pistol).
4. Ammo - 9mm pak drilled and fitted with 6,35 pellet by using a glue

Grand power is not cheap made alloy so it shoud stand it and its not even matter because all preasure goes throught the lotar walther hardened steel. Plus blank ammo is not that strong as real one so in my opinion that would work.

Very curies thing, dont you think?
Ofc i dont posses this, its just for your consideration...
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  enopa

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Posted: October 22 2016 at 11:41am | IP Logged Quote enopa

Hello, this thread came up in google so I joined to ask which manufacturer of blank guns between Bruni, Reck, Kimar, Ekol and Zoraki make the best candidates for a conversion to real 9mm ammunitions.
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  Zuzzy

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Posted: October 27 2016 at 3:03am | IP Logged Quote Zuzzy

Probably last 2.
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