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Romak3 PSL build
Weaponeer Forums : ROMAK / PSL

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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 20 2006 at 2:59pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

I thought would start this thread to avoid cluttering up the romak3 gb thread and also consolidate the info bieng gathered on building this great rifle.  I will post some pics as i go along with my build of the rifle on a blank from coldsteel as well as upload some cad drawings I havw made with hole placement dimensions pulled from a romanian reciever.
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Posted: April 20 2006 at 3:08pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

here are my thoughts from the other thread along with a post by a fellow thats almost done with his build on the psl blank from cold steel. Check out his link and you can see the great progress he has made. Hopefully I will catch up in the next couple of days

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Quote: mwebster ]

Hey All,

    I am building one of these on a Coldsteel blank (from the last group buy).  I am not done, but the write-up so far is here:

http://www.websterfam.net/monte/gun/gunmain.html

  It has been a lot of fun to figure out, but is no typical AK build.  If you have a few AKs under your belt and want a better challenge, then this will give you a good one.   If I had some more $$$ laying around, I would love to join this buy and get another one or two. Maybe I could do a para version, or get some custom furniture.  

Coldsteel Solutions Inc. will sell you a receiver blank complete with special rails, stiffening plates, and a template for this build.  You will also need some special rivets for this build (see the write-up). I don't know if they also sell them or if you will have to compile your own set.  You can ask CM at Coldsteel.  I used an underfolder rivet set,  plus 2 more from the hardware store that are 1/4" longer.  The trunnion fit my receiver perfectly, but the template was not useful, except as a reference.

I just don't want people to be afraid to buy a kit if they can't find a complete FFL receiver.  It can be done! :)

[/qoute]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have been reading and re-reading your build pages for the psl and am very glad you posted, always reassuring to see it before cutting metal. I have a couple of questions. My coldsteel psl blank is 10.5" in length. With my bbl trunion in place in the shell I placed my top cover as far forward as the cutout for topcover in trunion will allow. Using the top cover to detirmine the placement of the stock trunion it puts the rear edge of the upper rivet hole at the rear edge of the receiver meaning the rec isnt going to give any support against recoil to that rivet.  Looking at your pics its clear your rear/stock trunion is almost .10 farther forward in the receiver than my top cover will allow. Could you tell me the overall length of your rec shell and the overall length of your top cover? The only option I see in my case is to shorten the front of the top cover to locate the stock trunion further forward or find another rec option. I dont mind shortening the front of the top cover slightly but am unsure if that option will create other problems.

I notice with my shell and reinforcing plates that aprox 1/2 inch of the of the rear of the reinforcing plates is going to be unsupported as the rec is 10.5 inches long and the rear of the reinforcing plates is at 11" from the front of rec. Did you make a couple of fillers? I held a psl reciever at the mgs booth at knob creek and the rec was a full 11" , same length as the rear of the reinforcing plates. This dimension was verified by another member that has a psl.  It seems to me the coldsteel blank needs to be 1/2" longer. 

 Any thought appreciated


 

may have answered my own question. Looking at the imprint on the stock made by the original rec I see that the psl rec ends at the same point as the blank I have from cold steel, the gap created by using the flat reinforcing plates provided doesnt exist on the factory rec so I assume the reinforcing plates on the original rec must be thicker at the rear where they project over the rear of the rec. Ill post pics later that will make my ramblings more clear.

If anyone has any thoughts, pics or advice on build info please pile it in this thread so others (like me) can avoid any pitfalls.



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Posted: April 20 2006 at 4:22pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

here is what i have for hole dimensions so far. The fcg and safety placement was passed along to me from a fellow with a commercial psl. The rivet holes for bbl and stock trunion were generated from parts I have in front of me. I will finish putting all the dimensions on these and the rest of the holes in the drawing of the bottom for the trigger gaurd rivets as I get a chance. One set of the drawings has no dimensions for folks with cad programs that would prefer not to have all the clutter and the other set has dimensions for folks working with a .dxf viewer. Both drawings are full scale so if your printer will print true size you can just print and use as a template I supose. Keep in mind these are just the drawings I am generating and are not in anyway proven or expected to be accurate, just sharing my work so use these at your own risk and dont get upset with me if the drawings are incorrect, all atf and nfa rules apply etc etc.

bottom of rec

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/magwelldim.dxf

reinforce plates

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/plates.dxf

right click save target as

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/pslholes.dxf

and the one with dimensions

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/pslholesdim.dxf

here is a link to the drawing of the rails

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/pslrailsmine.dxf

I will update these as I get a little more time, here is a link to a free .dxf viewer so you can use these files if you dont currently have a cad program

http://www.infograph.com/products/dwgviewer/DWGdownload1.asp

here are the drawings in BMP format  also

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/pslholesdim.bmp



Edited by panaceabeachbum
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  g.man10MM

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Posted: April 21 2006 at 2:12am | IP Logged Quote g.man10MM

Here are a couple of rather poor quality pics of my Romak 3 build.  It's functional as is, but I'm going to try some cosmetic tweaking before I Duracoat it.  Below are some notes on some of the little quirks that may throw the average AK - builder off track.  I made several mistakes (based on some faulty assumptions), but everything turned out OK in the end.

Some preliminary info:  Using the Romak 3 kit from the last GB and a Cold Steel PSL 80% blank (w/ rails and rivets) all parts are from the kit, except the trigger guard, which was from a Romanian AK kit.  Used basic hand tools, Dremel, drill press, bench grinder, 12 Ton HF press, HF 110V Spot welder, MAPP torch.  I'm not going for a complete guide or anything(see mwebster's site above - lots of good info), I'm far from an expert, just pointing out some things I noticed, and some things that I messed up.

1. Figure out the length based on the top cover PROPERLY fitted into the front trunion.  The stiffening plates will protrude.  Do not (as I did) ASSume that the rear of the plate is even with the rear of the receiver.  I can assure you that it isn't.  (see PBB's info, I wish that I had had that.) I was also in my "AK 80% Dremel Groove" and without thinking make the cut that you normally make in the rear of the receiver for the top cover to fit into the rear trunion- don't do that!

2. The 2 long rivets that come with the set (from CSS) are not long enough to rivet the stiffening plates.  I countersunk the holes, cut some drill rod and BFHed it in and ground flat.  Not particularly pretty, but it worked.

3. I would recommend installing the trigger guard with screws, until you fully assemble and test function, then go back and rivet. Mine required some adjustment, it was easy to do since I had done this.

4. If you decide to use an AK triggerguard (my original was badly mangled), you may have to take some material off of the top of the catch, it's an easy hand fit. 

5. Have your FCG holes drilled  and mag well done before fitting the lower rails.  There are some quirks that are much easier to fix before you weld.  I had to cut away a large part of the rail in the magwell dimple area.  Also at the hammer axis pin, you will need to remove some material (either drill an extra large hole (in the rail only) or cut a slot) otherwise you will not be able to engage the retention slot in the pin with the retention spring or an e-clip, the combination of the blank and the rail is too thick.  You'll see when you mock it up, put the pin in and look inside the receiver for the slot in the pin- you probably won't see it. 

6. If you use a standard AK center support,  the unformed end of the rivet will go through the center-located hole in the scope rail, the rivet will not be long enough (again, I used drill rod.)  Also, watch your clearance on the front rivet, it will obstruct the magazine if not pounded flat enough inside.  I located the scope rail off of this center support hole, leveled to the top of the receiver and spot welded, then riveted.

7. Bottom picture below shows the field expedient setup I used to press in the barrel.  The press is on 2 pieces of 4X4(for clearance), and the barrel (protected by a brass disc) is just to the side of the ram.  The trunnion is supported by some 1/2 X 1 inch steel.

8. I seemed to have to do a greater than normal amount of hand-fitting (magwell and rails especially.)  The Dykem "high-spot dye" was really handy.

9. In fitting the top cover I had to take a small amount of material off of the front, 1 pass on the bench grinder.  If you're off only a small amount, you could put a small bend in the rear part of the receiver cover as well.

10.  Heat treat the axis holes before attaching the scope rail.  Among other things it acts as a huge heat sink.

Hopefully these ramblings were coherent enough to be of some benefit.  If I remember anything else, I'll add it in.  Again, I'm no expert, but am happy to answer questions if I can.  Next project: M76 - a perfect companion IMO.

G.man

 

 



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Posted: April 21 2006 at 11:31am | IP Logged Quote g.man10MM

I couldn't find a proper center support rivet locally.  I improvised one out of a piece of 5/32 oil-hardening drill rod (had to chuck in drill press and stone off a very small amount of material to get it to slide into my AK center support.)  Bucked the right side against a piece of steel with a shallow divot and tapped the left side into the countersunk hole in the scope rail with a punch and hammer.



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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 21 2006 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

oops, should have been more clear, how did you decide where to drill the rec for the center support

Updated the cad drawings, had stock trunion holes in the wrong place

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  g.man10MM

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Posted: April 21 2006 at 7:35pm | IP Logged Quote g.man10MM

I based the center support location by starting with the assumption that  it was the same as the standard AK, relative the the FCG axis pins.  I mocked it up by tapping the center support in between the rails before drilling and ensuring it didn't interfere with the bolt travel or the hammer.  It looked OK, so I went with it.  Sorry, I know you were probably looking for something a bit more scientific.

Took it out to the range this morning, the thing is a blast to shoot.  Shot about 40 rounds of the Wolf Gold and about 200 147 Gr Polish surplus.  Surprisingly accurate until the barrel heats up, then it widens up quite a bit.  Using the 8X scope from the GB and going slow I was able to ring the 600 and 500 meter gongs pretty consistently.  Recoil is very mild, I shot it side by side with a Mosin Nagant, and it is a world of difference. 

Had a few minor problems.  3 or 4 of the surplus cases split in the shoulder area, none of the Wolf had any problems, none of either ammo showed any bulged primers.  Also, I only took 2 Magazines with me, but both had a hard time feeding if loaded over 3 or 4 rounds. It seemed that the rim of the case was being pushed up too hard into the lip of the magazine.  It seemed a little worse with the steel-cased ammo.  I'll do some troubleshooting and post if I figure anything out. 

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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 21 2006 at 11:27pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

no thats exactly what I had in mind doing for mine, just didnt want to punch a hole in the wrong place and have you point out something I might not have thought of. Other than the cross member with the slot i have the bolt hold open device and want/hope to put the rivet hole in the correct place incase i decide to fart around with it at some point.

Glad your test firing went well, I noticed the mag springs seemed really strong, I snapped 5 rounds in one today and could barely strip them out by hand. Having lots of experience with 54r I will be happy if the gun will shoot 2" at 100yds, I have a few ans of that match ammo but it didnt help my tiger carbine any.

I did get the front and rear trunions fitted today.I think the reinforcing plates need to be thinned in the area that contacts the rec leaving the portion that overhangs the rear of the rec thick and eliminating the gap. I can tell looking at the imprint on my stock that the reinforcing plate were thicker at the overhang so as not to have a gap, I wish I knew how thick the plates are over the rec section on a romanion rec. Looking at the few pics I have it looks to only be 1/16" thick or so over the rec. Would also make the rivets closer but still a little short.

here is a pic of the reinforcing plates thinned

 

 

 



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  g.man10MM

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Posted: April 22 2006 at 1:46am | IP Logged Quote g.man10MM

panaceabeachbum wrote:

I did get the front and rear trunions fitted today.I think the reinforcing plates need to be thinned in the area that contacts the rec leaving the portion that overhangs the rear of the rec thick and eliminating the gap. I can tell looking at the imprint on my stock that the reinforcing plate were thicker at the overhang so as not to have a gap, I wish I knew how thick the plates are over the rec section on a romanion rec. Looking at the few pics I have it looks to only be 1/16" thick or so over the rec. Would also make the rivets closer but still a little short.

I'll bet you're right about thinning the plates, that would explain a lot.  The gap just doesn't look right.  I would have really liked to have had a commercial receiver to look at, but no such luck.  I like the idea of shortening the barrel(now you have me thinking of getting another kit), maybe replace the stock with a conventional AK Pistol Grip configuration, only thing missing would be a 20 round mag.

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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 22 2006 at 1:06pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

here is a drawing of what I believe the reinforcing plates should look like, the set that came with my coldsteel blank have the wrong angle cut on the top, actualy taller towards the front than the back, and as you know the ak rec get shorter as they move towards the front. These drawings are based on sitting here with a mike studying the side of the rec and in no way am I sure they are perfect , but i will be machining a set out later today for my rifle and will post pics when done. If they prove to be correct and there is intrest I will turn out a few sets for those interested.

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/plates.dxf

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Posted: April 22 2006 at 5:04pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

I will finish the drawing of the bottom of the rec and upload tonight, I am maching my rec from the drawings I have posted today and will be tweaking them and also adding the crosshairs for centerpunching on one set for folks that want to print and overlay on coldsteel blank. PBB

 

When this next GB closes I think I might build that one as an 8mm if I can find a decnt source for m76 mags

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Posted: April 22 2006 at 8:41pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/magwelldim.dxf

here is the drawing with the magwell and holes in the bottom of the rec, everything on all the drawings so far has been updated and verified other than the fcg and safety holes which I will place tommorow. I cut my mag well on the cnc mill from the above dxf file and its a perfect fit.

Gman10mm , I like your idea of the standard pistol drip and buttstock, I looked the Idea over before cutting the crescent out of the side of the receiver and there is indeed enough room before cutting that chunk out to install a std pistol grip. I layed one of the long yugo stocks and yugo pistol grip out and it looks pretty darn cool. Thanks for the good idea. I think Im gonna duplicate the yugo long buttstock for the next one and cut the bbl to 16" , might shorten the gas system slightly fopr a more balance look. Now just to decide between 444 marlin or 8mm.

 



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  g.man10MM

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Posted: April 23 2006 at 12:25am | IP Logged Quote g.man10MM

panaceabeachbum wrote:

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/psl/magwelldim.dxf

here is the drawing with the magwell and holes in the bottom of the rec, everything on all the drawings so far has been updated and verified other than the fcg and safety holes which I will place tommorow. I cut my mag well on the cnc mill from the above dxf file and its a perfect fit.

Looks like some serious progress, very nice!

panaceabeachbum wrote:

Gman10mm , I like your idea of the standard pistol drip and buttstock, I looked the Idea over before cutting the crescent out of the side of the receiver and there is indeed enough room before cutting that chunk out to install a std pistol grip. I layed one of the long yugo stocks and yugo pistol grip out and it looks pretty darn cool. Thanks for the good idea. I think Im gonna duplicate the yugo long buttstock for the next one and cut the bbl to 16" , might shorten the gas system slightly fopr a more balance look. Now just to decide between 444 marlin or 8mm.

I don't think you could go wrong either way.  The only time I remember seeing M76 Mags recently was at Sarco, $45 per if memory serves (ouch.)  I'm assuming that the .444 would require some fairly serious modification/ fabrication?  Could a Saiga .410 mag be modified to serve?  Maybe a custom muzzle device and gas piston for 922 compliance purposes(if you stick w/ the Yugo wood.)  If you need any pics or measurements for 8mm, let me know.  I have a M76 kit and a milled ORF receiver sitting around waiting for some spare time to build.  You have me just about ready to jump on this bandwagon, even though I had resolved to hold off on parts kits until I made some kind of dent in what I already have.... oh well.

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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 23 2006 at 3:12pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

updated the safety, hammer and trigger hole locations, had them all wrong in the drawings for some reason. make sure to download the new drawings before drilling any holes
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Posted: April 23 2006 at 9:22pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

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Posted: April 25 2006 at 5:25pm | IP Logged Quote mwebster

Hey,


  Just wanted to say that it is great to see that someone is getting more info together on these builds.  I know I have sent quite a few this direction.  Keep up the good work.


Although my work does not appear to be as nice as what I see from panaceabeachbum  (nicer table top too), I am glad to have finally completed my build. I can report that it functions beautifully so far.  I still need to put 200 rds thru it to get better confidence. Maybe this weekend.


I updated my build site with the latest pictures and issues as I see them.  I am just one voice, so I would like to know if others have tested the headspace yet and if they had issues with it being too tight like mine was (see the write-up), or too loose.


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Posted: April 25 2006 at 9:17pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

sweet.  Just finished reading your update, I feared the trunions were gonna be mismatched, I really hope mine is tight also. How are you retaining your fcg pins? I ended up cutting the bottom of the rail  so the shepards hook could lay in the notch
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Posted: April 25 2006 at 10:51pm | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

here is a pic of the bolt hold open from the magwell looking upward, should be able to duplicate from this pic , found this pic at gunco.net

another pic from gunco



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Posted: April 26 2006 at 9:28am | IP Logged Quote mwebster

panaceabeachbum wrote:
How are you retaining your fcg pins? I ended up cutting the bottom of the rail  so the shepards hook could lay in the notch

I am using e-clips for retaining the pins.  The sides panel of the lower rails are too thick, so I had to cut out a notch around the hammer pin to make room for the e-clip.

The center support bracket does look simple.  If you figure out a way to dup it, I would be happy to purchase one from you :).  I would like to try to get it more 'authentic', if possible.



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Posted: April 26 2006 at 11:14am | IP Logged Quote mtdew

I posted this question in the gb awile ago but does anyone know what the correct headspace dimensions are?

As far as trunions,  I traded one of the members here for a better fitting one. The one they included w/ my kit was about .012 undersized.

That pic of the center support is great. That should be very easy to build.

 

 

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