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Recoilless options?
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  RodFromGod86

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Posted: February 07 2016 at 4:06am | IP Logged Quote RodFromGod86

Would it be possible to develop a recoilless rifle from a .50 BMG or 12ga. steel cased ammo? I think it might be an option for those who live in commie states that ban the .50 BMG or common military calibers.
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  backbencher

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Posted: February 07 2016 at 11:49pm | IP Logged Quote backbencher

I guess I'm not understanding how you're going to evade California law by making a .50" caliber recoilless. It's still going to be .50", and thus banned under their anti-gun laws.
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  RodFromGod86

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Posted: February 09 2016 at 3:35am | IP Logged Quote RodFromGod86

It would not be illegal because"

1) The ban only covers rifles chambered for the .50BMG cartridge specifically, not .50 caliber. Altering .50BMG brass by drilling holes in it to make it like a recoilless rifle cartridge would effectively be making it a new cartridge (.50RRC/Recoilless Rifle Cartridge?) and it would not be able to be fired safely in standard rifles chambered in .50 BMG and vice versa.

2) The Ma Deuce is Cali Legal as it is a non-rifle firearm because it cannot be shoulder fired, as the ability to fire something from the shoulder is what makes it a scary "assault weapon". Making a recoilless rifle that would be fired from an M2 tripod would negate that.
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  backbencher

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Posted: February 09 2016 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Ah, I see where you're going now. Be difficult to find a place to shoot it - most ranges are not set up for recoilless rifles.

Thought Barrett had come out w/ a Cali legal cartridge based on the .50" BMG for their rifles. That could be chambered in a Ma Deuce. Ah, yes, the .416". And they've made their 82 in a fixed magazine version they can sell to ban states.
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  weaponeer

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Posted: February 09 2016 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

the topic of recoiless weapons has always been a great interest to me, and there are a number of ways to go about doing this.

The traditional is modification of the ammunition, which requires a VERY unique chamber design.

The other, would be mechanical, again dealing with the bolt and/or chamber.

the most common is muzzle devices.

BUT, the question you need to answer is WHY...  because that will determine the direction.
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  1fozziebear

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Posted: February 09 2016 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote 1fozziebear

Actually you should talk to Ordnance.com. They do DD reactivation on mortars and RRs. They make an insert to fire .50BMG rounds out of a recoiless rifle and it provides back blast!! I once had a similar idea for 26.5mm flares. Then the price got stupid on them.
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  RodFromGod86

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Posted: February 10 2016 at 9:31pm | IP Logged Quote RodFromGod86

1fozziebear wrote:
Actually you should talk to Ordnance.com. They do DD reactivation on mortars and RRs. They make an insert to fire .50BMG rounds out of a recoiless rifle and it provides back blast!! I once had a similar idea for 26.5mm flares. Then the price got stupid on them.


I'm thinking more along the lines of affordable home build as recoilless rifles are a bit pricey to purchase. All you would really need for that is a breech block and a barrel. I'm more interested in how small it can be scaled down or practically built at home and a drilled out .50 BMG case or a steel cased 12 gauge like the stuff sold by Silver Bear would be useful enough to build a recoilless system from.
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  RodFromGod86

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Posted: February 10 2016 at 9:49pm | IP Logged Quote RodFromGod86

weaponeer wrote:
the topic of recoiless weapons has always been a great interest to me, and there are a number of ways to go about doing this.<br><br>The traditional is modification of the ammunition, which requires a VERY unique chamber design.<br><br>The other, would be mechanical, again dealing with the bolt and/or chamber.<br><br>the most common is muzzle devices.<br><br>BUT, the question you need to answer is WHY...  because that will determine the direction.<br>

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I would like to do it to see what is the smallest practical size you can get a recoilless rifle down to. 12 gauge or .50 BMG seems to fit the bill.

Most US types of recoilless ammo look like a regular cannon cartridge, both straight walled and bottlenecked, just with the addition of holes in them. The Russian 2A28 Grom and the SPG-9 ammo is a lot more different than the US ammo and looks more similar to the RPG-7 HEAT ammo.

I do get that the chamber is open in the rear so that gas will vent rearward, but how supported is the cartridge in the chamber and how much propellant is required to actually get it going, since it would not build up pressure like a standard, fully enclosed chamber? Would it be because ammo is pre rifled and provides less resistance than if it were forced into the rifling.?
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  1fozziebear

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Posted: February 10 2016 at 9:59pm | IP Logged Quote 1fozziebear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvNwnwvvCA&index=4&list=PL2 72B4B9976E64B6E

I'd still talk to these guys. I'd hate for someone to get hurt modifying ammo. At least they might be able to give you some pointers.
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  backbencher

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Posted: February 11 2016 at 6:34am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Say we take .30"-06, which is what Browning scaled .50" BMG up from, IIRC. Drill a bunch of holes in the case. Drill a bunch of holes in the chamber, and have a shroud around the chamber pointing to the rear.

You'd need some method of lining up the holes in the case w/ the holes in chamber, and some liner inside or outside of the case to keep the powder from spilling out.

Then you'll need a very fast burning powder, I suppose. And a large back blast area.

IIRC, the smallest US recoilless rifle was 57mm, which was fielded either @ the end of the 2nd WW.
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  RodFromGod86

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Posted: February 11 2016 at 1:46pm | IP Logged Quote RodFromGod86

This is more along the lines of what I am thinking of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx7AfAyEies
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  backbencher

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Posted: February 12 2016 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

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  backbencher

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Posted: February 12 2016 at 10:39am | IP Logged Quote backbencher

Also, here's a US 57mm recoilless rifle w/ the .50"BMG practice insert:

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  OldCoot

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Posted: February 14 2016 at 4:07pm | IP Logged Quote OldCoot

Neat notion.  Wonder what actual velocity they are getting with these rigs.?  Recoilless is a fairly slow projectile proposition...
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