Weaponeer.net
Welcome Guest
Not a member yet? Register Now! or Login
0 member and 18 guests currently online.
Search Forums:
Site Partners

This site is Gunny Approved

 


Site Login
Username

Password

Auto Login
Add me to the active users list


Forgot password | Register

Online Users
Total Users Online: 18

We have 0 member(s), 8 spiders, 18 guest(s), and 0 anonymous users online.

Members Online:
None.


[ View Full List ]
[Based on the last 10 minutes]

The most online was 215 and occured on March 28 2013 at 11:38am.
We had 5 members, 203 guests, 0 anonymouse users, and 7 bots online at the same time.
Todays Visitors (32):

Buspete entry
Weaponeer Forums : Home Build Projects

Posted in Home Build Projects
Members Viewing Topic: None

Post New TopicPost Reply
Prev Topic :: Next Topic
Author Message
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 9:41pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

OK, since the "buildablility" is important to most homebuilders, I wanted to keep it simple, quick, cheap and easy.

No, I'm not talking about that chick at the end of the bar, I'm talking about my tube gun entry for this contest!

Since we finished up a semi-PPSH build on Friday afternoon, it clears the bench for a new project. I raided the piles of boxes of parts and came up with:

-Uzi carbine 9mm barrel from when they were dirt cheap at CDNN

-AK grip, screw and nut

-AK FCG from when they were having a blowout sale at Tapco

-Sten magwell, end cap and spring from back when MkIII kits were $25 at I/O

-AR15 firing pin, got some on sale somewhere

-length of 1.31" ID tubing from Onlinemetals.com that was in the pile of metal stock in the corner

-chunk of 4130 round stock, also from onlinemetals

-buggered up, rusty, old AK flat to be used as a template for the FCG and possibly a FCG housing if I can straighten it out

All total, considering that I got a lot of this stuff cheap, the pile of stuff represents maybe $75 invested in the project.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  dcorb

Avatar
BG
BG

Joined: November 28 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10166
Posted: January 28 2008 at 9:46pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

I am excited to see your build. If I can ever finish my 10/22 pistol I planned on starting on a 9mm pistol build. But at the rate I going it might not happen before summer.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View dcorb's Profile Search for other posts by dcorb
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 9:53pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Here are the parts layed out on my crude, yet effective full scale working sketch.

This will be a tube gun, utilizing an AK FCG, Sten Mag feeding from the bottom and ejecting out the top. The barrel will be a cut-down Uzi that mounts to a turned trunnion with a nut. I'm planning a charging handle on the left, since I am a southpaw. The ultimate scheme is to build it as a pistol, but have provisions to convert it to a supressed carbine later. (gotta file a Form 1, the tax stamp will cost more than the gun...) But for now, it will be a quick and easy pistol.

 

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:16pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

This build deviates from the typical Sten type tube gun setup in that the bolt will wrap around the barrel in the same way that an Uzi or FMK does. This should allow for a shorter, more compact receiver and help with weight distribution.

We haven't started working on the bolt yet, but here is an Uzi barrel sitting inside an FMK-3 bolt to illustrate the concept. As you can see, the "business end" of the bolt where the cartridge base will sit is up inside the bolt instead of on the end like a regular Sten type bolt.

This redistributed weight will make for a longer bolt, but because it will be  hollowed out to clear the FCG and allow the empty shell to eject upwards, it will still need to be around the same weight as any other blowback 9mm bolt. We weighed bolts from a Sten, Uzi, FMK-3, Baretta 38, PPSh41 and PPs43and all were in the 1.3-1.5 lb range.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:17pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Just to clarify, we aren't using the FMK bolt, it is just used in the photo to illustrate the concept of the "telescoped" bolt that we will be using when the bolt for this build gets turned.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Since all of the other dimensions for stuff like the location of the magwell, the FCG, the ejection port the bolt design and the overall length of the receiver are all relative to the barrel, the first step in this build is to fabricate the trunnion.

The plan is to make a SAE threaded version of the standard Uzi trunnion. It is a solid piece of steel that the barrel slides through. The barrel is secured to it with a big nut. By using a nut, the barrel is removeable. This will come into play later.

On a Sten MkIII, the barrel is held in place between two stamped sheet steel trunnions with rivets. Our trunnion will be turned from 4130 round stock. It will be threaded on a boss sticking out of the front of the gun with 3/4-14 threads (the Uzi threads are metric). I chose 3/4-14 because I happen to have a tap in that size to fabricate the barrel nut.

There will be a flat section cut out of the face of the trunnion to keep the barrel from rotating. Take a look at how the concept looks on this skanky old Uzi parts kit:

 

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:45pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Here is the chunk of 4130, in the process of being turned down to magically become a trunnion.

By the time I remembered to take a pic, I had already turned down 1" of it to 1.060, which is slightly larger than the "major diameter" of the threads on a 3/4-14. Then i urned the part around and in the picture it is being turned down to .926" for 3.375". This section is where the barrel will stick into the receiver.

When installing the trunnion into the tube, we'll use screws for now so it can be installed and removed as many times as we need. Later on, once everytihng is good to go and functional, we can either rivet it in place, plug weld it, or just use the screws. After the screw holes are located, we can make a bunch of lightening cuts and holes in it to lower the gun's total weight.

Had to stop at this point. My little girl's bedroom is right over the shop and I don't want to use power tools while she is trying to sleep.

I ordered a 2' length of 1.312 round stock from onlinemetals tonight. The piece of stock I had left over after the trunnion is not going to be enough for my bolt. The bad news is that they are on the left coast and I am on the right, so it will probably not get here until next week. If I had enough stock, there is a good chance that we'd have this thing running very soon, like tomorrow! The bolt will be the longest part of the project, as it is fairly complex.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 28 2008 at 11:03pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

The tools that are expected to be used for this build are relatively simple.

Lathe, mine is a 1942 vintage South Bend

Drill press and bits

Dremel tool with cutoff disks

3/4-14 tap

Torch set for welding (or brazing or silver soldering etc) depending on how things go, maybe a wire-feed arc welder to tack weld stuff

Grinder (could use the Dremel, but bench grinder is faster)

Measuring tools like vernier calipers will speed things up, but trial-and-fit would work for most of it.

The only expensive thing on this list would be the lathe, but I'm sure that pretty much everybody knows somebody who has one that would be willing to turn some parts for you. If all else fails, you could take a night class at your local tech school in order to use their equipment.

With very few excptions, expensive tools just make the job easier. Most gunsmithing can be done with a big hammer and a Dremel tool. The magic is knowing exactly what to whack with that hammer and where to grind with the Dremel. Keep in mind that guns have been around for 500 years and power tools have only been around for 100 of them!

I'll post more ASAP. Unless something comes up, we should be able to install the trunnion and get to work on the magwell tomorrow. Once the magwell is installed, we can get to work on the FCG.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  Vorvon

Avatar
1SGT
1SGT

Joined: October 15 2004
Posts: 302
Posted: January 29 2008 at 12:10am | IP Logged Quote Vorvon

SWEET! I am liking this already!

Mike

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
My 7.62x25 rifle build
  Status: Offline
View Vorvon's Profile Search for other posts by Vorvon
 
  blurrededge

Avatar
Level 2 Site Sponsor
Level 2 Site Sponsor

Joined: January 18 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 1401
Posted: January 29 2008 at 1:23am | IP Logged Quote blurrededge

Damn, you work fast.
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
Semper Fi
  Status: Offline
View blurrededge's Profile Search for other posts by blurrededge
 
  Guests

Guest Group
Guest Group

Posted: January 29 2008 at 8:03am | IP Logged Quote Guests

looking good....
Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
 
View Guests's Profile Search for other posts by Guests
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote buspete

blurrededge wrote:
Damn, you work fast.

I wake up at night thinking about this stuff! I had to tell my wife about the project so I won't get in trouble when she catches me at the lathe when I'm supposed to be working...

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  Vorvon

Avatar
1SGT
1SGT

Joined: October 15 2004
Posts: 302
Posted: January 29 2008 at 11:12am | IP Logged Quote Vorvon

HAHA I think all of us have done that since the contest started!

Mike

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
My 7.62x25 rifle build
  Status: Offline
View Vorvon's Profile Search for other posts by Vorvon
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:18pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Day 2 project report

Today the trunnion was bored out to fit the Uzi barrel. It took a while because I didn't want to overheat the part or drill crooked, so we started with a fairly small drill bit (3/8") and opened the hole up slowly by going up 2 drill bit sizes at a time, then turned the part around in the chuck and did the same from the other end so the holes met in the middle.

Once the hole was big enough, we used a boring bar to open it up to the desired dimensions.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:19pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Here is the trunnion all turned to size and bored out to fit the barrel.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:22pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

The barrel fits perfectly, all that remains for work on the trunnion is to thread the boss that sticks out the front and notch it to accept the barrel's flange. Then I can turn a knurled nut to screw the barrel down firmly to the trunnion.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:24pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

Here is how the three pieces will be in relation to each other. Notice how the barrel protrudes into the tube quite a way? This is where the telescoping bolt comes into play. I hope I can find the self control to wait until the onlinemetals order gets here, if I get too impatient I may chop something up to scavenge steel for a bolt.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  buspete

Avatar
SFC
SFC

Joined: January 31 2004
Posts: 91
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:28pm | IP Logged Quote buspete

And finally here is how the parts layout looks with the barrel where it belongs. I'll need to come up with something to mount the FCG in, either something fabricated out of scrap steel or maybe I'll bend up an AK flat to chop up. I woke up this morning thinking about a way to use the AK flat and make the lower removeable with pins. I'm considering welding a pair of blocks to the tube that will fit inside of the lower. The lower will then either pin to the blocks or screw to them.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb


__________________
For flintlocks: www.middlesexvillagetrading.com
  Status: Offline
View buspete's Profile Search for other posts by buspete Visit buspete's Homepage
 
  dcorb

Avatar
BG
BG

Joined: November 28 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10166
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:35pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

buspete wrote:

Day 2 project report

Today the trunnion was bored out to fit the Uzi barrel. It took a while because I didn't want to overheat the part or drill crooked, so we started with a fairly small drill bit (3/8") and opened the hole up slowly by going up 2 drill bit sizes at a time, then turned the part around in the chuck and did the same from the other end so the holes met in the middle.

Once the hole was big enough, we used a boring bar to open it up to the desired dimensions.

I like the tool holder in this picture, I want one.

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View dcorb's Profile Search for other posts by dcorb
 
  deervalley

MSG
MSG

Joined: August 14 2006
Posts: 257
Posted: January 29 2008 at 7:55pm | IP Logged Quote deervalley

dcorb wrote:
buspete wrote:

Day 2 project report

Today the trunnion was bored out to fit the Uzi barrel. It took a while because I didn't want to overheat the part or drill crooked, so we started with a fairly small drill bit (3/8") and opened the hole up slowly by going up 2 drill bit sizes at a time, then turned the part around in the chuck and did the same from the other end so the holes met in the middle.

Once the hole was big enough, we used a boring bar to open it up to the desired dimensions.

I like the tool holder in this picture, I want one.

 

 

I like the tool holder too. do they still sell those?

Agree Disagree Funny Informative Polite/Nice/Friendly Useful Optimistic Artistic Late Bad Spelling Bad Reading Dumb
  Status: Offline
View deervalley's Profile Search for other posts by deervalley
 
<< Prev Topic Home Build Projects Next Topic >>

Page of 3 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum Jump


This page was generated in 5.0156 seconds.