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M31 Suomi Build: Barrel and Shroud
Weaponeer Forums : M31 Suomi Build

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  panaceabeachbum

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Posted: October 04 2005 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote panaceabeachbum

Not on the bolt subject but I have a bunch of the soumi sets from centerfire and 3 or 4 of them have bbl jackets with machined muzzle brakes in place. i am chopping a number of these in half and welding 2 together to make longer shrouds to cover 16 1/2" bbls, just didnt want to cut them up if they are odballs. any value in the ones with brakes?
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  tommerr

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Posted: October 04 2005 at 5:28pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

Panaceabeachbum:

The older ones have no muzzle brake. There are lots of both. Thank you for your thoughts on the SBR problem. The Suomi could be a major problem because it has a quick take down feature could allow short barrels to be used. I came up with a double idea which would prevent the use of stock barrels and still retain the takedown feature. In several weeks I will be able to make one for pictures. The barrel stop band has a notch cut into it and the receiver has a corresponding stub. I plan to machine many stubs and also weld in some hardened receiver ID blocking pins. Stock barrels could not be used with this configuration without a lot of machining. Your thoughts?

All the Best

Tom
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Posted: October 05 2005 at 8:23pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Here is a picture of my barrel shroud (compared to an unmodified shroud).

I used one of the muzzle brake/extensions that Brenbuilder makes to modify my shroud. Fit and alignment is perfect. After welding it on, I chucked the shroud up in the lathe and cleaned up the welds.

I also moved the front site forward....



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Posted: October 06 2005 at 12:52am | IP Logged Quote Guests

You will need to contact "brenbuilder" for a price. We did some swapping, so I really don't know what he would sell them for.

Here's a picture of the extension before it is installed and finished.

 

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  Brenbuilder

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Posted: October 10 2005 at 9:06pm | IP Logged Quote Brenbuilder

I've been a little slow in monitoring the Soumi semi build. If enough interest is there, I will offer the Soumi barrel extension in a GB.

The price will be $40.00 per extension plus $3.75 for shipping and handling.

Total price: $43.75 

                                     



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Posted: October 12 2005 at 10:31pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Brenbuilder wrote:

I've been a little slow in monitoring the Soumi semi build. If enough interest is there, I will offer the Soumi barrel extension in a GB.

The price will be $40.00 per extension plus $3.75 for shipping and handling.

Total price: $43.75 

                                     

see above. This are being made by Weaponeer member "Brenbuilder"......

Here is a picture of my barrel shroud (compared to an unmodified shroud).

I used one of the muzzle brake/extensions that Brenbuilder makes to modify my shroud. Fit and alignment is perfect. After welding it on, I chucked the shroud up in the lathe and cleaned up the welds.

I also moved the front site forward....

Looking at the picture, I think I will move the sling mount forward to where the front site originally was...



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  Dan Diesel

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Posted: October 13 2005 at 9:39pm | IP Logged Quote Dan Diesel

Tommerr

I would also like to turn a barrel of legal length.  Can I purchase a barrel that has already been reamed for this caliber, or do you have to start with a blank.  I've got the blank for the M56 but could not find the correct reamer.  I like the idea of a full length barrel especialy if you can retain the take down feature.  I hope you can get your design aproved because if not wouldn't we have to weld the barrel to the front of the receiver and shroud to the barrel to be legal?

 

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  tommerr

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Posted: October 13 2005 at 10:18pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

Sir Daniel of Diesel: the Suomi

The "key" is the ability to install a stock short barrel. It doesn't matter if you have a short barrel or not or if you never intent to install a short barrel. In the eyes of the law, because you could easily install a short barrel, it is your intention to do so or you would have prevented such an installation!! In coming!

The M56: I do not have a 7.62x25 chamber reamer. I will buy one! I want to know that my build chambers a round properly.

All the Best

Tom
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  rocknut

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Posted: December 21 2005 at 7:26pm | IP Logged Quote rocknut

Ace123 wrote:
How do you guys share design inforamtion?

Could you go over the legal issue with the takedown feature for the novice (briefly). I understand the barrel length but am not clear about the take down feature.

Thanks

 

I'm a novice myself but here is my take on the situation. With the quick takedown, its possible for the owner of a suomi to switch between legal and short barrel configurations without tools. Unfortunately the atf seems to consider this an intent to build a short barrel rifle. What tom and everyone is trying to figure out is how to change the design of the barrel takedown so that it is still functional but so that a stock short barrel can't be swaped on. That should appease the feds and allow us to keep the cool takedown feature.

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Posted: December 21 2005 at 11:03pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

Here is an idea to keep the takedown feature when building a new barrel:

Enlarge the ID of the shroud so that the old barrel collar does not make contact and can move forward freely. On the new barrel, put the collar at the front of the barrel so that it makes contact on the front part of the shroud on the inside. Add a sleve on the barrel where the shroud ID was enlarged to eliminate play and help center the barrel. The setup is the same as it was before; however, the contact between the barrel and the shroud has been moved to the front of the shroud. The old barrel would not tighten since the shroud ID has been increased. This mod should make the old barrel unusable with the shroud and keep the takedown feature for the new barrel. I have a sketch if there is interest; however, someone will have to instruct me on how to include a picture with a post. The button to attach a picture does not seem to work for me.
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  redleg

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Posted: December 31 2005 at 6:56pm | IP Logged Quote redleg

To my understanding, the extended shroud counts as the barrel to the BATF folks.  Same theory as makes the AMD65 barrel extension or M4 14.5 barrel with inch and half compensator legal
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  tommerr

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Posted: January 01 2006 at 9:56am | IP Logged Quote tommerr



Here is a picture of the new barrel in the shroud. Also shown is the dummy connection for the submittal. The barrel is 16 1/4 inches long.

K_Kassidy: The shroud must be bored out if you want to use it with the new barrel. The compensator can be cut off at the same angle as the older style and you are back to square one. Imagine what the cost would be if you had a new shroud machined today! It would probably be a $500 shroud.

Tom
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 10:35am | IP Logged Quote tommerr



This picture shows the new barrel connected to the receiver dummy. A stock barrel can be inserted only so far into the receiver and the shroud cannot lock the barrel onto the receiver. This should make it "OK" but I will be submitting it next week. This design involves changes which can be cut into the receivers already out there, provided they still have the receiver front unaltered. If this is accepted, I will be copywriting the design to prevent "others" from stealing it and for my proposed book.

When you buy a receiver from Mike, he has offered to machine the receiver front for the new barrels. That will make it a virtual drop in. Thank you Mike. I will be sending the dimensions and a master pattern to him.

May this New Year bring many good toys for all the big boys.

Tom

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  mtdew

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Posted: January 15 2006 at 10:35pm | IP Logged Quote mtdew

As for the QC barrel, why cant a reduced dia barrel and receiver be used. Like the uzi carbine barrel /trunnion /feedramp design. Or is there something i'm missing

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  rocknut

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Posted: January 17 2006 at 11:57pm | IP Logged Quote rocknut

I was thinking of machining a threaded insert for where the barrell takedown lever goes and using a button head screw to secure the barrell shroud until Tom's new system is ready. Does that sound legal since it would no longer be quick change?

 Thanks for the feedback Semtex!

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  ke6guj

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Posted: February 02 2006 at 12:33am | IP Logged Quote ke6guj

I don't think it is just the fact that it will accept a removable barrel, it is that an original <16" barrel could be installed without mods, creating an SBR.   If there had never been any <16" barrels, then any removable design would be acceptable.

For instance, with the AR-7 example, the pistol version had a "different" barrel than the rifle version. It may have been an extra index pin or ofset extractor, I don't recall the specifics, but IIRC, it was something like that.

Like on the UZI, the end of the barrel for the semi-auto was turned down and slid into a ring in the receiver that the SMG did not have. The semi barrels would fit in the SMG, but not the other way around.
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  tommerr

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Posted: February 20 2006 at 9:57pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

Dafixer: I gave this a great deal of thought. Mike suggested that a redesign which would include all previously made receivers, would be a very good thing. I have already altered two barrels to the new configuration. The original barrels will not fit into the redesign and the new barrels will not fit into the original Beretta receiver. I think that we will have it all covered. I have materials at hand to machine and weld original barrels to the new configuration. Please remember that this is not yet blessed.

I have 4130 tubing, which is the same diameter as the original barrel. By turning the barrel and having a piece of that tubing welded into place, your barrel will then be of legal length. It will fit through the barrel shroud like a glove. If you drill a barrel shroud with a compensator with a 3/4 inch drill, you can have that shroud and a legal barrel. If you have a barrel shroud with a compensator and you wish to change it into the early configuration, just cut off the compenator as the original shroud was machined. Ya, me also confused.

All the Best

Tom
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Posted: February 20 2006 at 11:01pm | IP Logged Quote Guests

On the barrel shroud, I have cut the ends of one of my shrouds and machined the end pieces to remove the tube part. A 1.25" OD tube with 0.083 wall cut to about 13.5" length puts it all back to to fit a 16.25" barrel and makes a great looking shroud. One can make any slot/hole design to meet your taste. Adding one more set of slots ( to the original three) makes the shroud look great.
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  tommerr

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Posted: February 21 2006 at 7:25pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr



Here is my little surprise. Months of work and most of 100 hours of experimentation. This is number four and I will be submitting this one to the BATFE. The first three didn't pass muster. I am nitpicky. It is my modified takedown idea. I have a backup modification if they don't like it. I must rebuild the release latch and make a barrel washer to tighten things up. I will do a bit of cleanup and polishing so that it looks pretty. After all that work, I will make it look professional.

Tom
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  Dan Diesel

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Posted: February 27 2006 at 11:04pm | IP Logged Quote Dan Diesel

Here is a picture of the barrel shourd that I just finished. 

P1010220.jpg

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