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Casting Metal Parts
Weaponeer Forums : Casting

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  Inabadhood

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Posted: November 17 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote Inabadhood

I agree with Tommerr and enterpricorp.

I've cast a fair bit of aluminum in high school.  Mostly sand casting, and a little bit of die-casting with high silicone aluminum.

With any aluminum casting, there's no surefire way to get all the air bubbles out, and with the inherent impurities in your cast materials, you will also get quite a bit of porosity throughout the metal - not just on the outer surface.

Yes, you still need to use carbide tips, and the impurities in the castings can also wear on them pretty unevenly.  One thing I learned while working in the metal shop at my high school - If you need precision, quality, and a good surface finish, just do the machining with a solid forged chunk of metal.  Casting will never be as good as forged metals.

I've made some decent things from a casting that I later machined down on the mill, and tried polishing up the surfaces nicely.  It worked okay but nothing I'd consider to be a quality piece of work...  If you need something rudimentary, functional, and not too pretty, sure casting (via sand or die casting) aluminum or zinc alloys is okay but you'll get a much better end-product (especially for things requiring precision machining) by starting with a forged metal in your machining work.

YMMV, but I think I might stick with machining forged metals and save the casting for a later date/time.

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  enterpricorp

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Posted: November 17 2008 at 12:20pm | IP Logged Quote enterpricorp

Forgings, like what is available for the ar and fal lowers is the way to go. I'd leave castings to large structual members with minimal stress like bipods, brackets, mounts and crossmember type deals.

Casting is also useful for small pieces like sight components and I was just looking at some pictures of some old SMG's that looked like their mag housings were probably cast.

As far as non-gun stuff goes there's all sorts of stuff to be created and replicated like drawer pulls, old time toys, metal trim pieces, all sorts of car parts like bezels and handles that were originally pot metal, and the list goes on. Most of the parts on todays car engine are cast and then machined as well as a lot of suspension components like control arms and engine cradles/crossmembers.

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  midmichigun

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Posted: November 18 2008 at 12:04am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I found some info regarding a product called "Petrobond". Please follow the posted link below. I know there has been discussion on using plaster and or sand for a mold. Here a guy was talking about replenishing the sand with 30wt oil. Perhaps the way to go is to simply pick up some silica sand and 30wt oil, use the lost wax method and be on the road. He mentions resins... but its worth a try to just use oil and sand.

The second link talks about what some of our members have discussed regarding various Al alloys and various casting techniques.

The third link talks about a "Joe Public" fella who is building a submarine. Guess what! He is using AL. So follow along with his technique. I see some possibilities here guys.

www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Jupiter_Blend_Foundry_Sand.php

www.key-to-metals.com/Article59.htm

www.submarineboat.com/casting_aluminum.htm

 

 

 

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  enterpricorp

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Posted: November 18 2008 at 11:55am | IP Logged Quote enterpricorp

Inabadhood wrote:

I agree with Tommerr and enterpricorp.

I've cast a fair bit of aluminum in high school.  Mostly sand casting, and a little bit of die-casting with high silicone aluminum.

 

Just an fyi, it's "silicon" not silicone, that's what they use for implants.

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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 24 2008 at 11:45pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

Here are a couple good videos worth watching

Home built foundry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvgTYotK8E

Foundry pattern to product

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOS6q60oBYU

Foundry for the Home gunsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aWuOkyjpo

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  Mr.BCH

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Posted: November 24 2008 at 11:56pm | IP Logged Quote Mr.BCH

midmichigun wrote:

Glocks? Who would want such an ugly thing.

Heeey now, that was my ver first weapon ever purchased other than the red ryder and the crossman CO2 .177 pellet gun.  I still have it and although an ugly duckling, it has a special place in my collection

Additionally, I have some notes to add to this thread but I need to gather them as it's been a long time...  more hopefully tomorrow. 

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  MADJACK

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 5:37pm | IP Logged Quote MADJACK

Weaponeer wrote:

Here are a couple good videos worth watching

Home built foundry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvgTYotK8E

Foundry pattern to product

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOS6q60oBYU

Foundry for the Home gunsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aWuOkyjpo

 

Thanks for the Publicity Weaponeer   I posted those specifically to demonstrate to our gunsmithing community what can be done with the ultimate in free scrounged stuff, scrap aluminum...



Edited by MADJACK
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  elmacgyver0

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 7:08pm | IP Logged Quote elmacgyver0

I'm one of the idiots that built one of the metal foundries to pour aluminum. I'm sure glad I didn't know about all the pit falls about machining the stuff or I would have never been able to build the lathe I built. Can I make a perfect casting every time?.. Hell no. If everyone listened to all the nay sayers I guess we would still be in the stone age. I'm sure a perfectly sevicable AR lower can easally be cast. Might not be up to some peoples standards but hell some one here made one out of wood! 
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  elmacgyver0

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 7:12pm | IP Logged Quote elmacgyver0

I sure hope no one here is trying to use aluminum to hold the pressure of even a pistol cartridge. Use good steel for your lock up aluminum for lowers ect.
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  dcorb

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 7:18pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

elmacgyver0 wrote:
I sure hope no one here is trying to use aluminum to hold the pressure of even a pistol cartridge. Use good steel for your lock up aluminum for lowers ect.

You have a great attitude! I always enjoy projects where people say it can not be done. When I was 16 I had a 65 Dodge van and wanted a put a Hurst floor shifter in it. Everyone said I was nuts, well I started on it, had it half done and had to go to work. I had half the gears on the floor and the other two on the column. Finished it the next day. Sold it after a year with that shifter if it, just could not speed shift.

That said, I will cast metal someday !

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  weaponeer

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 7:35pm | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

MADJACK wrote:
Weaponeer wrote:

Here are a couple good videos worth watching

Home built foundry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvgTYotK8E

Foundry pattern to product

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOS6q60oBYU

Foundry for the Home gunsmith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aWuOkyjpo

 

Thanks for the Publicity Weaponeer   I posted those specifically to demonstrate to our gunsmithing community what can be done with the ultimate in free scrounged stuff, scrap aluminum...

I thought it was you..  but didn't want to put you on the spot..  lol

nice videos!

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  elmacgyver0

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged Quote elmacgyver0

I'm sorry if I offended any body with my post. I read through it and it is a little strong. I feel kind of grumpy tonight. I am not feeling well, think I'm coming down with someting. But you can make some neet stuff with aluminum.

You kind of learn by doing. Be real careful to keep magneseum out of your scrap. Aluminum cans suck, you get about one drop of metal for each 50.000 cans. Old aluminum doors and window frames are good. You can cast ingots using an old sheet steel muffin pan. You don't want to do this in your good clothes, you will get dirty..as in black!

I didn't have any problems machining it with HSS tools, just resharpen when dull.

As the lathe is far from perfect it does function. Do I recommend building a lathe, no. The 9x20 at HF is cheap and usable with a few mods. I do not regrett the experience though.

 

 

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  midmichigun

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Posted: November 25 2008 at 10:25pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

elmacgyver0,

Welcome aboard to our Merry Post! No, I actually welcomed your post to the thread. It is nice to hear somebody say.... it can be done.

All my dabbling leads me to believe that while not always a simple "easy" thing, casting will open dimensions that are incredible. If you follow the links posted in this thread... you will see some incredible items being made by everyday people.

I don't think anyone is going to make a bolt out of AL. However using the AR 15 as a pattern... you can see how much AL is practical.

I just purchased a box of plaster from Menards. I paid $3.99+tax for 4.0lbs. A 25lb bag is $9.50.

My problem is not the desire, or lack of materials... it happens to be time.

 

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  Inabadhood

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 11:47am | IP Logged Quote Inabadhood

I agree, with so many nay-sayers in our personal lives, it's great to hear some optimism!!! 

I can talk with a fellow shooter that's local here, and all I ever hear is, 'You're crazy, that'll never work!'

I heard it when I told him I was gonna build an AR-15 many many years ago...  'You don't need a gun like that, besides, you probably couldn't build something that complex anyway...  You're wasting your time and a lot of money!  Why not build a nice flintlock from a kit instead...' 

I heard it again when I told him I was gonna build an AK-47 from a parts kit...  'Tha heck wouldja wanna have one-ah them fer???  Can't kill anything else with that 'cha couldn'ta killt with a good flintlock instead...' 

I heard it again and again over the years from many different people...  Nothing but pessimism, and naysayers!

Screw the lot of 'em!!!  I'm doing it!!!  We can do just about anything if we put our minds to it and have enough $$ to pull it off!!! 

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  midmichigun

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 1:41pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

inabadhood,

Thats the spirit! I am going to try and cast a Plastic grip this weekend with my new plaster. Probably not in AL, but we will see.

However, I am also working on a 3pc mold for casting an AL- AR receiver. Probably, the area where the buttstock screws in, won't be complete. My goal is to get over 90-95% complete with one casting. Minor fitup and cleanup. Tapping wasn't what I had planned for the 5% leftover, but whatever works. The nice thing would be to have the mag well 100%, since I have found this to be a pain to clean up.

Hopefully, this will lead to my Uber- Project, a hybrid ak/ar series.

 

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  hawcer

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 3:03pm | IP Logged Quote hawcer

This might  be a stupid idea,but seeing how you are wanting to cast a Ar receiver, but think you'll run into problems with the buffer tube area,correct?

I was also thinking of casting a AR receiver for my .22 upper(if I get a system together),I think a cast receiver should work fine for a .22lr.I was thinking...what if I make a receiver out of foam(as per lost foam casting) and insert a brass or steel threaded(buffer tap size) rod where the buffer tube goes and brass or steel rods in all the pin locations,then pack it in the sand for casting.In theory,after the casting solidifies,I should be able to knock out the rods and unscrew the threaded rod and have a almost complete receiver just needing a little bit of finish work.

Am I waaayyyy off on this,not really knowing the affect of molten aluminum on other metals?



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  elmacgyver0

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 6:17pm | IP Logged Quote elmacgyver0

You can cast a rod in a part and then drive it out. Never tried it with a threaded rod and then tried to remove it.
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  midmichigun

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 11:14pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Ladies and Gentlemen,

TO MUCH TALK! NEED MORE ACTION!

Hawcer has a good point about casting an AR lower in 22long, longrifle. However, I also suspect it would be a great platform for ANY pistol Caliber. I could also see this being done as a drum, or with an UZI clip... sten... I see the magazine well as a potential problem, so after alot of thought... here is what I did.

You will remember this as my first, cracked plastic receiver from another post. What I am doing is building up a trigger guard, extra large for gloved hands. After trimming off the magazine well, I filled in the area with Bondo. This will give me an area that can be machined for a magazine latch or catch.

You can now see the oversized trigger guard and the original slot for the AR magazine release system. I will keep it on at least initially. I have several plans for it. Please note that all surface imperfections have been smoothed down.

Note original size compared with new "pistol" type AR lower. I have filled in where the buttstock scews in to insure that it is easier to remove from my mold. However, if I want to use an AR recoil system, it wouldn't be hard to drill and screw in a buttstock. However, if I stick with a "tube" type design, with a spring with a high "K" value, I may not need the AR system.

Here, I have coated the inside of the receiver with Vasceline and IPA. The IPA is a simple solvent that will evaporate, leaving a thin coat of Vasceline behind. When the receiver "plug" was set up enough, I inserted several empty shells into it as "handles" and locators. When I lay the setup on its side, the plug will need to be held firmly while the molten AL is poured inside.

As a side note, I have beefed up the forward section of my shortened AR. This will allow me to drill and use another pin to hold an "upper" in place. This will NOT allow a flip open design with a magazine in place (like the AR). The second pin will be internal, hopefully giving the appearance of a more finished product.

I can't post more photos until the H2O has evaporated out of the plaster. Then I can remove the plug, and cast the "clamshell".

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  MADJACK

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Posted: November 26 2008 at 11:38pm | IP Logged Quote MADJACK

bikergunnut wrote:
O.k. I have to ask is casting IRON or STEEL beyond the scope of a backyard/garage foundry?

Iron is definately doable, I've done iron.  Steel is out of reach unless you build some sort of induction furnace...

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  midmichigun

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Posted: November 27 2008 at 8:39pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The twisted thread continues. After letting the "inner" mold dry, I quickly broke it! What I did instead, was to dip my receiver in wax. This gave it a "comfortable" thickness that could be melted, creating an easier way to pull the plug out. The following photos detail the casting of the other two parts for the mold.

As can be seen, I have the "inner" plug in place. Everything has been slathered up with vaseline and IPA. I poured the plaster into a reinforced box, after laying the reciever in place positioned on several chunks of old plaster. The mold was allowed to harden. I then broke the receiver out of the mold and cleaned up the part. I next put everything back together and reslathered up the part, and also the plaster half that had been poured.

Please note the demolded part. You can also see the vaseline "plugs" that I used to prevent the holes from becoming filled with plaster (making it hard to get apart). There are enough indentations that locating the "holes" won't be a problem. I will fill the holes on the inner plug so the molten AL won't solidify in them. Or as was suggested I could place brass/ bronze pins and drive them out of the AL later.

Notice on the left hand mold the "imprentation" of hollow spots. This was due to how I placed the part and the plaster viscosity. If it was thinner, it would have flowed under the suspended part. At this time our Turkeys were being attacked by a neighbors dog, so I had to "rush" this step.

Next few steps are finishing and smoothing the plaster. I will use a Dremel drill with attachment to smooth and polish the mold. I will also bevel edges to make getting the AL out easier. High and low spots must be cleaned up. This is a simple process that is part of mold making. I also have the parts "cooking" on my wood stove, to drive out moisture before the part is cast.

I made sure the inner plug was unique enough to insure that it couldn't be put in backwards. While it looks rough, it will do the job nicely. I will check dimensions also now to insure that I have an inside with proper dimensions. Remember I have allowed space for a second upper bearing block.  

Why is the part black? Why thats my Uber- Naysayerslayer finish... so it looks better.

Please note, I am leaving the country Monday, so what isn't done... won't be done for several weeks.

Hope everyone is getting entertainment value!

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