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Derringer Build was This seems all wrong
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  midmichigun

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Posted: March 30 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Gundoctor,

I do most of my "target" work with 38spec. So while I may tool it up for the bigger round.... it won't be fired much at that power. I would probably sight the beast in... and leave it. I remember someone mentioning casenit... but couldn't remember the exact name. How is quenching with this stuff? I was also thinking about doing a gas atmo in a closed oven to get the carbon content higher.

Let me quote: Machinists' Ready Reference, 8th ed, compiled by C. Weingartner. A treatment of "approx 15 minutes a penetration of approximately 0.005inch is obtained.. If deeper penetration is required, a longer time is necessary. A treatment of one hour results in about .010in depth of case. " This is in a molten bath of sodium cyanide at 1550F. At 1650F with charcoal or other carburizing compound you get, "In general we may expect to obtain a penetration of approximately .006in per hour of treatment". Obvious this is a NICER method than cyanide. Does anyone know what the maximum depth of penetration could be? None of my metallurgy books mention it... since it is assumed that Case hardening is just that... on the surface.

Another trick would be to throw down some high strength weld on "problem/ wear" areas. I have talked with a few gunsmiths who have done this.

cbmm,

Ok, the hunt is on for "birdseye maple". I wonder how easy it is to find "exotic" woods on the internet? I was figuring that if I don't do applewood, I may use one of my Mauser 1871 stocks. I may be able to find some nice colors past the termite and rot damage! However, you make a valid point.

I saw one guy who used a wood, that gave incredible stripes.... it almost looked like plywood the way he cut it (not that I would suggest plywood here). Wood will make the gun!

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  dcorb

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 7:14am | IP Logged Quote dcorb

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  midmichigun

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 9:40am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

dcorb,

Yes, I have a store "near" me. But the shipping cost is better than my time spent driving to the store... and the gas involved at $2.00 per gallon. I am at work again... so I now have the time crunch factor... everything is hurry.

Anyway, I ordered some items (no birdseye maple) so I will let you guys look it over and "help" me decide!

When I go down and pick up my 20ton press (yes I finally ordered one) I will stop into another wood working shop that I know of. If I remember correctly they have wood on display (if they are still open).

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  dcorb

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 9:48am | IP Logged Quote dcorb

Gas sucks around here also, maybe a little less about $1.93 now. I am going to drive 20 miles to pick auction winnings, but on the way back there is a surplus store and a Harbor Freight. With any luck I will find a few other interesting places to stop at. It is my "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"
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  tommerr

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 5:58pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

DO NOT BUY FANCY GRIP WOOD without talking to me first. I can get some top grade curly maple very cheap. It is the striped wood that you see on the "Kentucky" Pennsilvania long rifles. A stain and some sanding is required and then the wood becomes an eye popper.
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  dcorb

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 6:08pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

Got my metal for the barrel sleeves and the firing pin steel. The package came and my daughter called me up and asked if I ordered a shovel.

No one can say Speedy Metals is not creative on their packaging.

 

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 6:08pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 6:13pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

Did OK at the auction got 3 drill indexes; numbers, letters and fractional with drills and a nice box full of drill bits.

The stuff below is from the surplus shop, some nice boxes to put those drills in. Couple brushes for whatever, and two chunks of rubber that my be nice to make some buffers out of.

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  midmichigun

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 9:48pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Tommerr,

Sounds like with all these builds coming up, YOU may be the guy to talk to then. I think that as everyone finishes up their derringers... the fun will just be beginning for other people. Heck, I am already talking about building a second. Anyway, I am seriously interested in wood, curly maple sounds real nice.

As a side note, I will probably join you shortly on the Remy Rollingblock band wagon. Might need some wood for that project also!

Dcorb,

You go! Looks like you made out like a bandit on the drill bits! Very seldom do I get a find like yours! Well, I am going to eat some dinner, and then hopefully out to the garage to make some more chips!

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  cbmm

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 9:59pm | IP Logged Quote cbmm

wet sand those grip with 400 gr in whatever wood you chose to raise the grain it will really make it pop all so i picked up some buffalo nickels that were made to go on a belt they were bent and had a stud attatched i found them at a gun show but have seen them at any leather shop i was going to put them on my 45 but never got around to it i could post a pick if your interested
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  midmichigun

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 10:06pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

cbmm,

Sounds good! Post some pics. Always looking for ideas...

There is nothing like finely polished wood... That is what makes a gun.

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  gundoctor

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Posted: March 31 2009 at 10:47pm | IP Logged Quote gundoctor

I might be able to come up with some cow horn if someone wants to steam some, flatten it, and make grips.   I like that look with this era.
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  cbmm

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Posted: April 01 2009 at 9:01pm | IP Logged Quote cbmm

http://www.eleathersupply.com/conchos.shtml

midmich                                                                                                                                          here are some examples of the studs i was talking bout for inlaying on your grips. cant get my computer to do any thing tonight. they have some really cool ones tho. look down the page at the black with silver cross

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  dcorb

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Posted: April 01 2009 at 9:07pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

I think I found one for mine:

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  midmichigun

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Posted: April 01 2009 at 9:18pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

gundoctor and cbmm,

Dang... you guys come up with to many ideas! I may have to build 12 derringers now to use up all the good ideas!

I looked at the site and have my eyes a few things!

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  cbmm

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Posted: April 01 2009 at 9:24pm | IP Logged Quote cbmm

hey i joined to learn from you guys. for yall to take my advise i'm honored
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  midmichigun

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Posted: April 01 2009 at 9:56pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

cbmm,

Well, most here are "RKI's" Reasonably Knowledgeable Individuals"... however, admittedly, we all have holes in our knowledge. Some are great at metallurgy, others at welding. Few are engineers or welders by trade. Some are just great idea people. All of us are pretty busy... so some topics and builds get dropped from time to time....

While you learn from us, we will be learning from you. Just chime in with comments... everyone views things differently.

Eventually I hope that we really have a hopping site here. As more people buy guns, more people will have questions.

Keep sounding off with ideas and thoughts. Do you have a specific interest or talent? Drop in a thread, related to guns, and see what happens. Right now a few of us are struggling with plastics and metal casting...

Welcome aboard!

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  midmichigun

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Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:17am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Ok,

More posts and photos:

Ok, this photo depicts my first big mistake on this project. I should have cut this hole while the receiver blanks were in a sheet form. As you can see, holding it was a bit of a challenge. I couldn't get it to hold tight. After breaking two cheap endmills I simply drilled holes and joined with a file... low tech but it worked. Lesson learned.

Next photo has better news. Dang, wrong photo......

OOPs, you won't like this picture or what happened next. I didn't know that turkeys were attracted to fire. Guess who fell in, and almost became turkey dinner?

Anyway... onto the better news photo:

I started fitting the FCG together. Here you can see the hammer in place. Still doing some final filing on it. I need to finish the inner spacer to allow the spring into it (it protrudes a bit). I also may revisit my hammer since it would appear I don't get as much spring engagement as I would like. Where it sits also in the "cocked" position doesn't allow much sight picture. Remember f=kx where x is the spring displacement. So more spring travel is good. Tomorrow onto the trigger and matching it to the hammer.

Hopefully I can get to the barrel soon. I may be purchasing a chamber reamer. Couldn't find one for 357 at Numrich today. Maybe I missed it.

You guys making anymore progress?

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  trickyrick

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Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:47am | IP Logged Quote trickyrick

MICHIGANDER, where did you get that 38/9mm barrel from. been rethinking mine as barrel thickness in minimal. chamber area is fine but where it steps down, might be a little weak. gonna get a thicker walled piece of tubing and cut it to a taper. later on. so i thought a 38 special rifle or 38 shot shell would be fine for now. i like the looks of yours w/ that long barrel on it. 
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  midmichigun

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Posted: April 02 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

T-Rick,

Check out the following link:

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=584090 &chrSuperSKU=&MC=

Scroll down the page and you will see 9mm, 357.

I have been hankering over the 45 barrels (as a 45long or 410). However, I don't know about the .445 barrel listed. The other 45 barrels are either octagon or priced to high for me right now.

Anyway what I have is unchambered from Numrich. These "bulk" barrels were the ones I posted where the bore was offset. If you have any questions on offsets, see that thread. Gundoctor discussed solutions. If you don't like offsets, buy several barrels and use the best.... worst for last. 

I am liking the "carbine" idea more and more.... guess its growing on me. But not on this build! Probably won't leave that super long barrel (16+inches) on it for long either. Kinda hard to get outta a holster!

I am not worried about using "lesser" quality tubing as a "holder" for the barrel. THe barrel is 5/8indiameter. The crosssection exceeds my Ruger in the barrel and cylinder portion so we should be plenty strong. A quoted figure for 4130 is 100,000psi. Most barrels are now chromoly. While I wouldn't bet my life on it, it is something to keep in mind. Anyways, I have alot of meat and between the gun barrels and the "holder" the tangential stress should be low enough to work.

For barrel design calcs I go to: Walter B. Muellers magazine: "Building a Single-shot , Falling -block Rifle action". Pages 8 and 9 go through barrel stress calcs. I would gladly post the equations here (they are NOT copyrighted) but it is hard to do that.

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