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Rolling Block Build
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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:14pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Guys,

Here is a MY build of a Rollingblock. I have a Remington as a pattern, but this is not strictly a Remington Rollingblock build.

I used chromoly hex stock and chromoly 1/4in plate for the side plates. However, I used 1020 for a stock tang that connects the receiver. This assembly was then welded together.

The first photo of my careful cutting via hacksaw.

Once I got the plate nibbled down, I "drew" out my design on the smaller chunks. I copied the Remington Rolling Block (RRB) roughly.

Then it was off to the mill! This is an action shot! I used a 1/2in end mill to cut the plates to size and shape! I clamped both plates so things would be lined up.

After the plates were cut, I then took my chromoly hex barstock and welded the assembly together. But to digress for a second: I put my barstock in my lathe and center drilled out a 3/4in hole for my future barrel (.22cal). This was VERY hard work due to my small lathe. I also found out that my mill is NOT true to the table! So when I attempted to do the work on the mill, I ended up with the hole not being a true through hole. Anyway, here is the welding. I initially tacked it together with the MIG, then moved to the ARC (stick) for GOOD penetration.

I carefully ground the side plates so the would meet up with the hex barstock and allow good penetration. The next photo is the welded assembly mounted on a false barrel shank.

I now needed to create the plate to adapt the receiver to the stock. I this will also serve to allow rollingblock and hammer through holes.

Notice my careful cutting of the plate. The "blackened" area is the "keeper" portion. The uncolored portion is what will be cut/ milled away.

The next photo is the mill work to align the part as needed.

Here is the "finished part.

Notice that I am actually sketching each part as I build it, so I can replicate the assembly later. The following photo shows what the welded assembly looks like.

Here is another view of the assembly. You can see the hex bar a little better. Note, I also welded the inside of the receiver for added strength.

Now onto the stock. I took a "donor" M1871/ 84 stock that was destroyed and adapted it to my evil purposes. Before you say I destroyed history, take a look at this gem!

The next photo is of a severly sanded stock. I had to cut and polish and sand to get the stock right. I also bent the receiver tang so the stock would fit. However, I did screw this part up, so I will have to do some more stock work.

You can actually see a "large" gap between the receiver and stock.

I played with the receiver tang by bending until I got the stock comb high enough to allow easy sighting down the barrel.

Next comes the FCG and trigger guard.

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  gundoctor

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Posted: June 13 2009 at 9:28am | IP Logged Quote gundoctor

great ideas and job.  Watching with interest.

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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 13 2009 at 1:21pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

GD,

Thanks for the kind words. I have several questions that I must ask.

1. What caliber should it be? I was shooting for 22 long. But am thinking about 22magnum. If I chamber for a 22magnum, can it fire: long, long rifle or shorts? I bored out the receiver to accept a 3/4in diameter barrel (the OD of my 22barrel blank). I do have a few barrels for 38spec/ 357mag or 9mm. They look a little thin for this rifle build.

2. Wasn't there a thread by Tommerr somewhere and some work that was heading along the Rollingblock idea? I looked, but can't find. It would be nice to post a link to his work in this thread.

If you guys think the 1/4plate chromoly is a little thick (for a 22), you are correct. I am playing with dimensions right now. I think the 1/4in is thin for a bigger cal. However, I am thinking about a nice short range deer gun in .357.

Obviously there are several ways to skin this cat. Plate is effective for me since I am out of work and don't have $$ for a block of 4140. It would be nice to go with a block, but involves more machine work with a mill. I do think that you could create this version without a mill.

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  gunguyr

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Posted: June 13 2009 at 2:18pm | IP Logged Quote gunguyr

midmichigun wrote:

GD,


Thanks for the kind words. I have several questions that I must ask.


1. What caliber should it be? I was shooting for 22 long. But am thinking about 22magnum. If I chamber for a 22magnum, can it fire: long, long rifle or shorts? I bored out the receiver to accept a 3/4in diameter barrel (the OD of my 22barrel blank). I do have a few barrels for 38spec/ 357mag or 9mm. They look a little thin for this rifle build.



22 s,l,lr are different dimensions than a 22 mag.

2. Wasn't there a thread by Tommerr somewhere and some work that was heading along the Rollingblock idea? I looked, but can't find. It would be nice to post a link to his work in this thread.


If you guys think the 1/4plate chromoly is a little thick (for a 22), you are correct. I am playing with dimensions right now. I think the 1/4in is thin for a bigger cal. However, I am thinking about a nice short range deer gun in .357.


Obviously there are several ways to skin this cat. Plate is effective for me since I am out of work and don't have $$ for a block of 4140. It would be nice to go with a block, but involves more machine work with a mill. I do think that you could create this version without a mill.

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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 13 2009 at 10:53pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Gungyr,

Yes 22's are different lengths. But I have not measured the case OD yet.

Here are some photos of the FCG that I am building. I started with 4140 barstock that I purchased for my Sten build. I used some "extras" to section off into hockey pucks. This is the result:

Notice how I then took some plate steel to create the hammer. I nibbled this out with a hacksaw, files and my mill.

Next comes the welding of the two parts:

After tacking the two parts together, it was off to the stick welder. If you look carefully you will note that I beveled the hammer so I could get good penetration into the "v".

After both sides were done, it was off to the grinder to clean up those messy welds.

I took my second "sectioned" bar stock hockey puck and loaded it into the mill/ drill. Around this step is when I actually cracked my vise. So I am in BIG trouble now. Anyway, enjoy the shot:

Here is what I labored the day to get:

Now its off to build the trigger, and fine tune the mechanisms so they work together. If you notice, when finished, the hammer will lock the block in place when the round is fired. Remember this is a work in progress. Where did I get my inspiration?

As you can see, it helps to have an original Remington. Notice the flat spring coming off the trigger guard? . I took the gun apart, and am investigating how it functions.

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  orions_hammer

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Posted: June 14 2009 at 3:16am | IP Logged Quote orions_hammer

That's an awesome build!  I've wanted to make a rolling block ever since I fondled one at a gunshow.  It's surprising how *thick* everything is on the Remington rolling block--that's going to be one sturdy 22 build!  The big flat trigger guard spring is the mainspring, to swing the hammer during firing, right?

One thing to keep in mind with the rolling block design is that your headspace is a function of the fit between the barrel, breechblock, and hammer.  If the breechblock isn't snug against the hammer at ignition, the case might get stretched or even rupture.  For design work, I always scan the parts first and draw up templates in a CAD program, so I can see how the moving parts will fit together.  Rationale is that it's a lot easier to move lines onscreen than in steel, and when the chips are flying I have a hard time remembering what the heck I'm trying to build without a clear template!

Regarding the cracked milling vice, I think I bought the exact same green 6" vice as Harbor Freight item #31001 for $18!  I notice it's got the "Pittsburgh" Limited Lifetime Warranty, although to take advantage of it you have to return it to Harbor Freight in Camarillo CA with return postage prepaid.

There was a good discussion on rolling block design here back in January with part pics by elmacguyver0, a good French article found by tommerr, and dcorb found a good schematic and started making some parts, all in the same thread describing tommerr's pepperbox 22.
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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 14 2009 at 12:57pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

O- Hammer,

Yes, I was looking for the thread on tommerrs pepperbox. I just couldn't remember the details. Thanks much.

You are 110% correct on Rollingblocks being VERY thick. I figure that if I build #1 as a 22, and get the geometry correct, then I can use the same platform to build a pistol cal item. Using chromoly is overkill, but I figure that I may as well go with a good grade steel. That being said, I would have loved to be able to case harden the receiver (I just love the color).

Yes, on the spring. Hidden from view is a second spring, for the trigger. Very compact package.

Once again on the CAD, you are correct. I thought about this, as a way to build a template similar to what we did with the Derringer build. Currently I don't have the skills (yet) or the CAD package on my computer. Let me play with the scan technique and see if I can get it digitized.

I am actually suprised that only two people have commented so far on this build. Guess I should have opted for the AK pistol?

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  dcorb

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Posted: June 14 2009 at 7:49pm | IP Logged Quote dcorb

I am impressed, very nice work!

I was watching this thread on my cell phone as I was at the cabin. I still want to build at least one of these. Interesting approach to the hammer design. I just might copy your design!

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  taztheblade

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Posted: June 14 2009 at 9:22pm | IP Logged Quote taztheblade

Looking good I love rolling blocks, oh & falling blocks, oh & about every other type of action i have ever had the pleasure to shoot.

I have been making knives most of my life & now am turning to making guns to imagiane that.

great build & good looking work.

ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap

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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 14 2009 at 11:21pm | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Guys,

I turned over the hammer/ falling or rolling block in my mind for a LONG time. Plate seemed like a good idea for quick shaping. But I know that i couldn't get the curves right with my current tooling.

Having a mill (or this could be done on a modest drill), I figured that I could take plunging cuts with my end mill to easily shape the hockey puck.

Let me tell you, it was a suffering day in Hooverville cutting the bar by hand. My bandsaw is down right now.

The barrel holder on the original RRB that I am looking at is round. I chose hex since I think it simpley looks better.

To give more strength to the hammer, I am also thinking about pining it in place.

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  Inabadhood

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Posted: June 15 2009 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote Inabadhood

WOW!  Sweet build project!!!  A LOT of good progress too!

Thanks for documenting this build well for us! 

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  Nevada_Blue

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Posted: June 15 2009 at 8:01pm | IP Logged Quote Nevada_Blue

Excellent! Looking forward to seeing more. This is my favorite type of build! :)
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  gunguyr

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Posted: June 15 2009 at 9:23pm | IP Logged Quote gunguyr

Many of us watch and don't comment often. Just remember,, we are watching....
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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 18 2009 at 1:08am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

Guys,

Here is an update... and how-to on the FCG and trigger guard, respectively.

Here is the FCG information. I carved out the "rolling block" a little more so the "locking" ability of the block is obvious in regards to the hammer:

It will be a closer fit once the firing pin hole has been cut into the block. Next photo is the plate that I carved the parts out of:

Not only did I cut, but I filed and milled these parts out! The next photo is of the "disconnector" and trigger. Remember that both are rough and not refined yet.

The next set of photos is in regards to the trigger guard. First I fabricated the "lower plate". I used a regular 1020 plate for this. Since my bandsaw is still down, I did the usual thing and used my hacksaw.

I then looked for a donor "circle" that I could make into an oval that was thick enough to look like a real triggerguard. I found a round pipe. Please note to remove ANY coatings that are on pipes or thick wall tubing that you are welding on.

After my cutting, please note the similarity of the raw materials to my "historic" example:

To get the pipe closer, I first pounded the circle into an oval, then split with a screw driver and opened it up.

It was then off to the welder....

Here is an intermediate pic of the welded assembly:

I dropped the above part in my mill, so more pics to come...  If you notice, the trigger guard is NOT symetrical. This was designed to be like this. More photos and reasoning later. Right now its off to bed!

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  elmacgyver0

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Posted: June 18 2009 at 7:31am | IP Logged Quote elmacgyver0

midmichigun,

This is most excellent, God I love it!

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  tommerr

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Posted: June 19 2009 at 7:51pm | IP Logged Quote tommerr

I just discovered that www.therifleshoppe.com has new made rolling block parts.
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  midmichigun

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Posted: June 20 2009 at 12:28am | IP Logged Quote midmichigun

tommerr,

Dang... now you tell me! Ok... I quit....

Ok...hhmmm well, today I started on the forearm. Here is a selection of shots while I toiled away (perhaps needlessly). Notice.. trees were hurt making this gun. I pruned fireblight affected branches off my apple trees, and came up with a nice chunk. I just LOVE apple trees. This wood was donated from a Red Delicious tree.

Next up with trimming the chunk to size! This was to check for barbed wire or nails before going into the table saw. Also to help check the color/ dryness and to get it into a block.

Here is the photo of several passes through the saw. I got it pretty square and notice some of the wood grain!

I then took the saw and set the blade to around 30degree tilt. I made two passes to "groove" the entire length.

Next I took a smaller diameter tube than the barrel OD, wrapped in sandpaper (40grit) and went back and forth until I reached the bottom of my "V". Now why didn't I use a router? I don't have it set up or have all the bits.

Next photo is of the "roughed" in forearm.

I still have ALOT of trimming to do. However, I am getting closer on getting the forearm done. Perhaps better photos with wood grain on a later date.

Notice the trigger guard. More work to be done. I have small "divits" in the welds that appear (sl*g) when I am grinding them down. So I wire wheel them away, weld some more... find some more... Perfection is tough...

Its after midnight... and time to crash.

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  weaponeer

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Posted: June 20 2009 at 1:09am | IP Logged Quote weaponeer

now thats what I call a home built....   lol
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  bikergunnut

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Posted: June 20 2009 at 1:18am | IP Logged Quote bikergunnut

That should sand out nice . Gonna use the same tree for the buttstock?

I feel your pain on the weld, grind, weld, grind......

Keep meaning to go see a local guy that has burl mesquite,

http://www.mesquitedesign.com./

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  orions_hammer

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Posted: June 20 2009 at 1:48am | IP Logged Quote orions_hammer

Awesome!  I just realized that the only wood parts I've included on any of my builds so far has been the lower receiver...  I definitely want to use some wood from my own property to make a stock--that's *real* home building! 

For future reference, wood really does mill quite nicely, especially if you've got some high helix tooling or ball-end mills.  Now that I know what to look for, I realize that almost every rifle stock is done on a big mill!
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